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humble suggestions for DR


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#1 Guest_braden_*

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 10:25 AM

As someone asked earlier, adding racial restrictions to some of the cleric kits would be a good idea, given the amount of kits in the mod and in future releases, for example an elf being a strifeleader of cyric, or a stormlord of talos, or a watcher of helm, etc, doesnt make any sense. I would actually like to see a lot more segregation for example: making several more elven kits for deities like sehanine moonbow, solonor thelandira, rillifane, etc; or dwarven kits for moradin, clangeddin, abbathor, dumathoin... etc. It seems to me that races like elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes worshipping human gods doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless it was something special or abnormal in their upbringing (like aerie worshipping baervan).

another idea is removing some of the weapon restrictions for different kits. for example, in D&D sourcebooks descriptions of these prestige kits, all clerics are not limited to blunt weapons, such as the feywarden being able to use ALL martial weapons (especially the longsword). perhaps there could be a tweak where the cleric is able to also use the favored weapon of their deity (scimitar for authlim, longsword for corellon).

one last idea i had was perhaps adding a small collection of deity-specific items in the games, such as amulets or cloaks or whatever, just some things to add a little more uniqueness to a kit.

anyway, that's my two-cents. i love the mod, lathander/helm/talos was a piss-poor selection of deities in unmodded BG2!

#2 Andyr

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 10:58 PM

I am against adding racial restrictions for kits unless there is a good rationale for it. :p I don't think that having more than 9 installable kits is a good reason... Plus, many of the deities are not specifically human-Shar, Selune and Kossuth spring to mind!

The issue of weapons is one I agree with you on; we've thought a lot about different options but I'm not sure what we'll go with.

Thanks for the feedback. :p
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#3 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 11:17 PM

I am against adding racial restrictions for kits unless there is a good rationale for it. :p I don't think that having more than 9 installable kits is a good reason... Plus, many of the deities are not specifically human-Shar, Selune and Kossuth spring to mind!

The issue of weapons is one I agree with you on; we've thought a lot about different options but I'm not sure what we'll go with.

Thanks for the feedback. :p


well i think the rationale is mostly that elves in general would not worship gods such as cyric or talos or helm. talos the destroyer and cyric, prince of lies are both heavily despised by elves and their general way of thinking. helm, also, being completely lawful and neutral is also against the elven chaotic nature and natural goodness. dwarves wouldn't really be too into sune or selune, being communal creatures, dedicated and hardworking. a lustful, fiercely independent goddess like sune wouldn't appeal to a dwarf, and neither would selune's general portfolio of wanderers. i agree about shar and some of the others though. kossuth is a weird deity, i'll give you that one too. perhaps as a compromise, perhaps there could be some sort of hierarchy, for example, if the player is an elf, then the first kits to pop up in the list would be elven gods (or just corellon if you don't implement others like sehanine, etc), and then other gods that would be in line with an elf like lathander or oghma. I just don't like the idea of picking and choosing which kits to implement (one of the reasons is i like to customize my characters with innates, so i wouldn't like disposing of some of the abilities!); and as this mod grows, i think it will (and should) include more and more deities.

damn bioware for only letting 9 kits be viewable!

#4 Miloch

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 02:26 PM

...if the player is an elf, then the first kits to pop up in the list would be elven gods...

I think that bit is dictated by installation order. In other words, if you installed the Feywarden kit first, it would show up first for an elf (or 3rd or 4th if you didn't remove the default kits) no matter what. But if you installed it 10th you'd probably never see it (unless the other kits didn't allow elves). Your other suggestions make sense to me.

damn bioware for only letting 9 kits be viewable!

Yes. Unfortunately that part is also 'OMG HARDC0D3D!' - not even messing with the GUI (like adding a scroll bar or more buttons) would change that.

Has anyone run with making more demihuman kit or deity profiles yet? I could probably work up a couple (maybe Gruumsh and Lolth) if there's interest.
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#5 Gorilym

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 02:25 AM

I could probably work up a couple (maybe Gruumsh and Lolth) if there's interest.


Count me as interested in a Gruumsh kit. :p

Edited by Gorilym, 13 December 2006 - 02:25 AM.


#6 Andyr

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 02:59 AM

I'm planning a Gruumsh kit. It's an interesting idea to make demihuman deities appear first on the kit selection, though. But still, you could always just not install all the kits at once. :p We'll see.
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#7 Grand_Dracolich

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 02:33 PM

damn bioware for only letting 9 kits be viewable!

Yes. Unfortunately that part is also 'OMG HARDC0D3D!' - not even messing with the GUI (like adding a scroll bar or more buttons) would change that.


Can someone use Shadowkeeper or something to switch to a kit that won't show up, then?

Great mod, by the way! I love the sunscorch animation, I'm glad you didn't use the IWD2 animation for it.
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#8 Miloch

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 05:29 PM

Can someone use Shadowkeeper or something to switch to a kit that won't show up, then?

Actually, you should be able to do that in theory with the latest Blucher/Nythrun Monster Mod or whatever it's called. It still has a glitch or two to iron out but I'm sure those'll vanish in short order :).
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#9 Jab

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:33 AM

Hey. ;)

I'll post some ideas for speciality priests, that I'd like to see in next versions.
Btw source of my informations:
Dragon Magazine #317 (there is a chapter about Holy Strategists)
http://www.nj-pbem.c...s/Faerunuan.htm or/
http://www.nj-pbem.c...a/Gods/Gods.htm
And of course Faiths and Pantheons.
(+ a piece of my imagination)

HOLY STRATEGIST OF RED KNIGHT: Holy Strategist is the name by which a cleric of the Red Knight is known, and it is an apt title indeed. By devoting themselves to mastering military tactics and strategy, these militant clerics hone their minds and bodies into deadliest weapon in Faerûn. So impressive is their reputation that armies outnumbering their foes three to one have been known to surrender upon learning that a Holy Strategist leads the oposing force.

Collectively, the cleric of the Red Knight are referred to as the Red Fellowship. Many members serve as high-ranking commanders in armies throughout Faerûn, often personally leading elite "special forces" units. Others who are not directly in the employ of the church serve as instructors at military academies or as quartermasters in charge of keeping the troops on the front line fed and supplied. If they the are not in a battle, Holy Strategists wear flowing robes of red accent with white.

Holy Strategists of Red Knight can only be of Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil alignments.

Abilities:
- Spiritual Weapon: Longsword - 'Checkmate' once per day
The Checkmate is the spiritual weapon of Holy Strategists, and is wielded as if the caster had grand mastery in the weapon. The Checkmate is a regular weapon at levels 1-5, +1 at levels 6-10, +2 at 11-15, +3 at 16-20, +4 at 21-25, and +5 at levels 26 and above. The spiritual weapon lasts for one round per level of the caster, up to 20 rounds.
- At 7th level, holy strategists can make three melee attacks every two rounds and two melee attacks per round at 13th level.
- From level 7 can cast Clairvoyance once per day, as third level mage spell of the same name
- From level 9 can cast Defensive Harmony once per day, as fourth level cleric spell of the same name
- From level 11 can cast True Seeing once per day, as fifth level cleric spell of the same name
- From level 14 can cast Mantle once per day, as seventh level mage spell of the same name

Sphere Access:
- Major access to the spheres of all, charm, combat, divination, guardian, healing, law, protection, war
- Minor access to the spheres of creation, necromantic, thought, travelers, wards
- No access to the spheres of animal, astral, chaos, elemental, numbers, plant, summoning, sun, time, weather

Next should be "Sword dancer of Eilistraee." :(

Edited by Jab, 04 November 2007 - 04:06 AM.


#10 Andyr

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 11:17 AM

I like the Holy Strategist.
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#11 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 02:23 PM

Glad to hear that. ;-) I'm still thinking about the Mass invisibility spell, but it's maybe the best way, how you can provide few attack bonuses to party.
I like these types of army-leading characters. In 3.5 DnD edition is a great class called "Marshal." Perphaps it would be a good choice for next version of "Sword and Fist." Although his auras would take some time to implement. There are even some similar prestige classes like War priest (also in NwN 2) and Warmaster (which is I think in the Sword and Fist guidebook).

#12 Jab

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 04:54 AM

Slightly changed few of his special abilities to made him more helpful for a party. Btw as HLA he could use Mass Haste and Mass Heal from IWD 2 as 7th level cleric spells (also abilities of DnD War Priests; btw Mass Heal would be useful for priests of Ilmater and perhaps Lathander) and fighter's War Cry (of course) as special ability. Btw I don't think, that he should have cleric's HLA Elemental Summoning and Implosion (too anti-one-guy).

Edited by Jab, 31 October 2007 - 05:54 AM.


#13 Miloch

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 06:53 AM

This would make a good paladin kit too (there seem to be fewer of those than cleric kits).
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#14 Jab

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:24 AM

This would make a good paladin kit too (there seem to be fewer of those than cleric kits).

Although there is a paladin order of Red Knight (called Order of Red Falcon), they have only "substitution levels" (see Champions of Valor guidebook) for their paladin levels.
BUT, thanks to you, I realized, that "Sword Dancer of Eilistraee" is an impossible kit for a cleric and I will make him ranger instead (which fits much better in BG 2). He has so many abilities attached to bastard swords (and single weapon style), that I was really frustrated while I was changing their names. And Sword Dancer without a sword would be a really good joke. :(

#15 Jab

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 09:48 AM

SWORD DANCER: Eilistraee the Dark Maiden encourages drow to return to the surface world and reestablish themselves as rightful, nonevil inhabitants of the Night Above. Although they need not be drow themselves, Sword Dancers are expected to lead that migration and work to promote harmony between drow and surface-dwelling races. They nurture beauty, music, the craft of making musical instruments, and song wherever they find it, assist hunters and hunting, and help others in acts of kindness whenever they see ways to do so.

Drow and half-drow are by far the most common races to adopt the sword dancer class, but other races, particularly half-elves, humans, and surface elves, venerate the Dark Maiden as well.

Sword dancers usually dwell together in small groups in places where other elven races might dwell. Most frequent woodland glades where they gather to dance, sing, and engage in swordplay under the light of the moon. When relaxing, they favor silvery, diaphanous gowns.

Sword Dancers cannot be Lawful Good.

Advantages:
- Infravision
- Can have Grand Mastery in Bastard Swords
- Can cast 'Sword Song' ability once per day. It lasts 1 round per level of the caster and gives a bonus of +2 to hit and damage and +3 to all saving throws.
- At 13th level gets 'Silverhair Armor' once per day. Sword Dancer's hair becomes infused with divine energy and glows softly with silver light. For 12 hours, as long as she is not wearing armor, she gains a +2 bonus to her Armor Class. This bonus increases by +2 every four levels after 13th.

Disadvantages:
- Can only wear Leather, Studded Leather Armor and Elven Chain Mail
- Cannot use shields
- Cannot use two weapons

So, it's a kit fo rangers. Sword Dancers have many advantages but also some big disadvantages. Btw I strongly suggest Magic Flute as HLA for him (or her). And I hope, that he can cast (as a Ranger) Faerie Fire and Moonblade spells. :(
There are no racial restrictions, because of drows (half-drows) from subrace mods (I think, that in BG2 they are considered as a new - non-elvish - race).

Btw my sources:
Faiths & Pantheons
http://www.wizards.c...nd/ei/20030902a

P.S. Vlasák wrote me, that there could be problems with implementing weapon and armor restrictions of the sword dancer. Maybe it would be best, if he would has same restrictions as Thief, with the exception of five possible * in bastard swords...

"0x40B2 HasItemSlot(O:Object*,I:Slot*SLOTS)
NT Returns true only if the specified object has an item in the specified slot." - That should be the way, how to deal with the 'Silverhair Armor' ability. = Invisible creature would test the slot in the inventory and, if empty, cast the spell (/ability).

btw alternative special abilities for Holy Strategist without (maybe too powerful) HLAs "Mass Heal" and "Mass Haste":

- From level 7 can cast Haste once per day, as third level mage spell of the same name
- From level 11 can cast Mass Cure once per day, as fifth level cleric spell of the same name

- Still stylish. :-)

Edited by Jab, 07 November 2007 - 07:13 AM.




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