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#1 Wanderer

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:45 AM

A couple things I've noticed since starting to use SCS for the first time. Here's the install order: Mac ToB, Tutu4, Tutufix 15, portraits etc, NPC 12beta2, Sirines Call 4, Indira 10, Finch 3, Mur'neth 6, Grey Clan 1.6, Song and Silence, gMinion 1.8, SCS 2.02, BGTweaks 2, Divine Remix 4.

During the prologue, you end up getting the new NPC kick-out dialogues with Arkanis and company when Obe teleports you out. If you send them to FAI, will they show up there? Would there be problems in Chapter 6 underneath Candlekeep?

Then, as soon as my PC woke up after the Gorion cut-scene, it was reported that Montaron received 1 quest xp. Next it was reported that Montaron was drinking a potion (speed or healing?) When I went to add the two of them, Montaron was listed as, um, dead = -13 out of 1 hp. The floating text warns of possible weird effects, but the level up button isn't active. He's able to walk around, but the inventory screen is greyed out. Xzar seems ok, he's able to level up.

#2 Gorilym

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:59 AM

A couple things I've noticed since starting to use SCS for the first time. Here's the install order: Mac ToB, Tutu4, Tutufix 15, portraits etc, NPC 12beta2, Sirines Call 4, Indira 10, Finch 3, Mur'neth 6, Grey Clan 1.6, Song and Silence, gMinion 1.8, SCS 2.02, BGTweaks 2, Divine Remix 4.

During the prologue, you end up getting the new NPC kick-out dialogues with Arkanis and company when Obe teleports you out. If you send them to FAI, will they show up there? Would there be problems in Chapter 6 underneath Candlekeep?


They do show up at the FAI if you send them there, though the really odd thing is that they spawn "on top of" each other in the main room there, so you have to let the "top" NPC join and then move it out of the way to even be able to talk to the others etc. As for Chapter 6, after being sent to the FAI Arkanis and... Deder? never showed up in the Candlekeep catacombs in my game... Not that they're much help in any case.

Then, as soon as my PC woke up after the Gorion cut-scene, it was reported that Montaron received 1 quest xp. Next it was reported that Montaron was drinking a potion (speed or healing?) When I went to add the two of them, Montaron was listed as, um, dead = -13 out of 1 hp. The floating text warns of possible weird effects, but the level up button isn't active. He's able to walk around, but the inventory screen is greyed out. Xzar seems ok, he's able to level up.


Now THAT is just plain weird, never saw anything like that happen myself.

Edited by Gorilym, 25 September 2006 - 12:00 PM.


#3 Wanderer

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:53 PM


Then, as soon as my PC woke up after the Gorion cut-scene, it was reported that Montaron received 1 quest xp. Next it was reported that Montaron was drinking a potion (speed or healing?) When I went to add the two of them, Montaron was listed as, um, dead = -13 out of 1 hp. The floating text warns of possible weird effects, but the level up button isn't active. He's able to walk around, but the inventory screen is greyed out. Xzar seems ok, he's able to level up.

Now THAT is just plain weird, never saw anything like that happen myself.

Just tried it again from an earlier save, and the same thing happened. This time I went a little further, bringing Xzar to level one, then sending Montaron after some local gibberlings. If they hit, he'd take no damage. Went to the Temple of Wisdom at FAI next; raise dead was not listed as an option, while CLW and CSW were, but had no effect (at least not CLW, which was all I could afford).

Then I reloaded from the auto save, and he wasn't there. Still a part of the group, but this time actually dead. When I went back to FAI, raise was available. However, having been raised he had only 1 hp, was listed as Level 1, and had his proficiencies assigned. When I send him after Tarnesh, moreover, he was invulnerable to magic missile (the assassin didn't manage to hit him with melee). Quite a cheat, that!

#4 cmorgan

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 02:32 PM

Oh, man... I bet we have an unanticipated "challenge" ... part of this might be BG1 NPC. Which did you folks use, the BG1 NPC Wait at an Inn, or the SCS version? The tp2 is only supposed to allow one, and this should never show up on an EasyTutu install because Macready has already fixed the whole "allow the illusions as players" thing, but traditional Tutu still has those loopholes.
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#5 DavidW

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 05:17 PM

I don't see how the Arkanis problem can be to do with SCS, but then I'm not sure how it can be to do with BG1NPC either! I'll do some experimenting...

As for Montaron, are you playing with the "Montaron as Assassin" component of TutuTweaks? I've had some reports of problems between that component and the SCS level-up component.

#6 DavidW

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 06:34 PM

Okay, so I've tested the illusionary party with the SCS wait-at-inns component, and they don't get the option to go to one. Can you tell us what text the game offers you when you send them to the FAI? (SCS and BG1NPC give different options).

As for the Montaron issue, I can confirm that there would be a problem if you install TutuTweaks Monty-as-assassin after SCS (sorry, thought I'd fixed this one). Workaround: uninstall and reinstall the choose-NPC-proficiencies component of SCS.

#7 Wanderer

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:47 PM

Okay, so I've tested the illusionary party with the SCS wait-at-inns component, and they don't get the option to go to one. Can you tell us what text the game offers you when you send them to the FAI? (SCS and BG1NPC give different options).

As for the Montaron issue, I can confirm that there would be a problem if you install TutuTweaks Monty-as-assassin after SCS (sorry, thought I'd fixed this one). Workaround: uninstall and reinstall the choose-NPC-proficiencies component of SCS.

Thanks for checking this out. Good catch, cmorgan, I do have BG1NPC's "send" option, but not SCS'. The text that comes up is:
NPC: It has been a pleasure adventuring with you. Well met, and farewell
PC: 1 You will have to wait here, I have no room...
2 Please rejoin the party.
3 Go wait for us at the FAI...
If sent to the inn, they actually accumulate on top of Jaheira (the same way that the Amnish soldiers by the bridge in Nashkel did in a previous tutu incarnation). However, you can also just keep them in your party, and they're stuck in the basement until you get out of Candlekeep, at which point they're dead (all those monsters), and you can resurrect them.

Here are the options I have installed of the latter:
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Correct various errors on race, class etc
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Make elemental arrows more like their BG2 counterparts
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2 // Make Protection from Normal Missiles block magical missiles
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3 // Replace many magic weapons with fine ones
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4 // Re-introduce potions of extra-healing
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5 // Faster Bears
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6 // Allow player to choose NPC proficiencies and skills
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #7 // Allow NPC pairs to separate
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #9 // Allow Yeslick to use axes
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #21 // Smarter general AI
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #23 // Potions for NPCs
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #28 // Smarter mages
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #32 // Smarter priests
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #35 // Harder giant and phase spiders
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #36 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #38 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #39 // Smarter basilisks
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #42 // Relocated bounty hunters
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #43 // Improved Ulcaster
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #44 // Improved Balduran's Isle
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #47 // Improved miscellaneous encounters
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #56 // Remove blur effect from displacer cloak
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #57 // Stackable ankheg shells and winterwolf pelts

Also, I do indeed have Montaron as an assassin. If I try to uninstall, though, won't it try to roll back everything that followed? Some of the G3 mods seem to behave that way (very useful most of the time, but I haven't tried to fiddling with the order of specific elements of different mods). I'll probably just go back to a clean tutu archive in order to choose SCS' NPC sendoff over BG1NPC. Is it bad news to install SCS after Tweaks?

#8 DavidW

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:42 AM

The text that comes up is:
NPC: It has been a pleasure adventuring with you. Well met, and farewell
PC: 1 You will have to wait here, I have no room...
2 Please rejoin the party.
3 Go wait for us at the FAI...

That's certainly not SCS. I think it might actually be the multi-player kickout patch of BG2-Tweaks rather than BG1NPC, though I'm not sure.

SCS is perfectly happy being installed after Tweaks. You can even do this on the fly (without going back to a clean archive). Just run setup-SCS.exe and select the option to [U]ninstall everything (or just the choose-proficiencies option). Then run it again and [I]nstall your preferred components. (Don't try to do it in one go, that doesn't change the install order if I remember right).

#9 cmorgan

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 05:16 AM

The BG1 NPC versions have a "wait here", a "wait for me somewhere along the SwordCoast" where the NPC responds with different areas based on how far along in the game you are...

this sounds like the Tweaks version "improved kick-out dialogues". It is possible that we need to convince CamDawg that a skip of that component if either the SCS or the BG1 NPC Wait at an Inn components is installed; a review of code shows that we (SCS and BG1 NPC) do indeed successfully escape the conflicts. We can even have the SCS version installed and it works really well!
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#10 Wanderer

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:00 AM

That's certainly not SCS. I think it might actually be the multi-player kickout patch of BG2-Tweaks rather than BG1NPC, though I'm not sure.

SCS is perfectly happy being installed after Tweaks. You can even do this on the fly (without going back to a clean archive). Just run setup-SCS.exe and select the option to [U]ninstall everything (or just the choose-proficiencies option). Then run it again and [I]nstall your preferred components. (Don't try to do it in one go, that doesn't change the install order if I remember right).

That makes sense. The multiplayer patch is worded confusingly, and others have noted the description discrepancy between weidu and the readme. Now that you mention it, when I was messing around with it the last time, I sent the whole prologue-basement party to FAI, to check out the stackable NPCs component Gorilym mentioned. In order to pick up all of those NPCs from the stack, I had to kick out Xzar and Montaron (who at this point was still officially dead, but technically walking around), and the BG1NPC dialogue that cmorgan mentions came up instead of what I quoted earlier.

Now, if this is right, it means I don't need to uninstall anything from BG1NPC (praise be!); instead I'll probably try as far back as SCS, then reinstall Tweaks w/out Multi-Player kickout, SCS' NPC level-up, and Divine Remix last on Gorilym's suggestion.

We'll see how far I get with trying it out, since I'm flying to the Bay Area tomorrow at insane o'clock. Thanks for the help, though.

Edited by Wanderer, 26 September 2006 - 09:29 AM.




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