Jump to content


Photo

Delainey's Proficiency


21 replies to this topic

#1 Grey Acumen

Grey Acumen

    Neutral Observer

  • Members
  • 18 posts
  • Location:Here(for the moment)

Posted 14 December 2003 - 09:49 AM

I've just started playing the alpha test, and one of the things I felt was a little bit of a letdown, was the fact that even though Delainey's main weapon is her spear, she still can't advance any further than 1 proficiency in it.

Most NPC's in the game, if they had a weapon that only they could use, also had better than average proficiency in it, and since Delainey has her own bard kit, there shouldn't be any reason to think that life on the island has left them better suited to some weapons than others.

I felt personally that Delainey should be able to advance to either 2 or 5 profieciency points in spear, and maybe be able to put 2 proficiency in 2hand weapon style.

I already talked to Bri about this, but she didn't want to implement this unless there were quite a few other people who supported the idea.


So what does everybody else think?

Should Delainey be able to have 5, 2, or just 1 point in spear?
Should she get 1 or 2 points in two hand weapon style?

Should she be restricted from certain weapons?(Perhaps there weren't any crossbows or flails on werewolf island, so she shouldn't be able to gain any proficiency in them)

#2 Kish

Kish
  • Modders
  • 721 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Rohnert Park, CA

Posted 14 December 2003 - 11:06 AM

I felt personally that Delainey should be able to advance to either 2 or 5 profieciency points in spear, and maybe be able to put 2 proficiency in 2hand weapon style.

I already talked to Bri about this, but she didn't want to implement this unless there were quite a few other people who supported the idea.


So what does everybody else think?

I'm afraid I quite dislike this idea.

Most NPC's in the game, if they had a weapon that only they could use, also had better than average proficiency in it,

Most? No, exactly one. Only Haer'Dalis has illegally high proficiency in his weapon of choice. Keldorn and Minsc do not have more than ** in two-handed swords. Cernd does not have more than * in staves. Valygar does not have more than ** in katanas, and Yoshimo does not have more than * in katanas. If Bri winds up deciding to give Delainy specialization as a kit feature, I wouldn't object to that as long as it's both logical and balanced, but she shouldn't automatically get specialization just because she uses a spear.
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change."
--Miles Vorkosigan

"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real."
--Aral Vorkosigan

#3 Caedwyr

Caedwyr
  • Modders
  • 1286 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 December 2003 - 11:07 AM

I'd say 2 points in spears, and 1 point in 2handed weapons.  This would show that spear use is something she is specialized in with years of training.

As far as weapon restrictions I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

#4 Harbinger

Harbinger
  • Members
  • 136 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Florida

Posted 14 December 2003 - 11:32 AM

I have to agree with Bri and Kish on this one, I dont think extra proficiency is warranted. Bards dont practice exclusively in weapons training rather they divide their time with spell casting and thievery,like its said jack of all trades master of none.

#5 Bri

Bri
  • Gibberlings
  • 3635 posts

Posted 14 December 2003 - 11:37 AM

I understand where you are coming from, Caedwyr, and while I was personally of the opinion that allowing only fighters to get up to five proficiencies in a weapon, while everyone else only got 1 or 2 didn't make sense.  I mean, I'm sure we can all see the reasons for exception to that rule.

That said, I don't mind seeing Del with a proficiency in spear, and I could almost allow 2 dots, but I wouldn't allow any more since that would then cheapen the fighter kit.  However, I will stand by and keep it 1 dot in spear.

1 point in 2 handed proficiency doesn't seem wrong to me though either (this could be considered that on an island, a spear is one of the easier weapons to make, even if it is just shaped stone, and wood, and everyone knew the basics of it)
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."

#6 Kish

Kish
  • Modders
  • 721 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Rohnert Park, CA

Posted 14 December 2003 - 11:39 AM

That said, I don't mind seeing Del with a proficiency in spear, and I could almost allow 2 dots, but I wouldn't allow any more since that would then cheapen the fighter kit.

Allowing two dots puts her on a par with rangers, paladins, and barbarians. You sure that's something you want to do? Do you see her as being that martial?
"You are what you do. Choose again, and change."
--Miles Vorkosigan

"The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real."
--Aral Vorkosigan

#7 Bri

Bri
  • Gibberlings
  • 3635 posts

Posted 14 December 2003 - 11:45 AM

I said I could see it possibly happening (the proficiency rules in AD&D second edition really are screwy).  However, just because I have qualms with a game mechanic doesn't mean that I will allow it to carry over.

But, as I amended in my previous post Kish, I will stay with one dot in Spear.
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."

#8 CamDawg

CamDawg

    Just returned from a triumphant carpet-bombing of Eden 7

  • Gibberling Poobah
  • 8732 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 14 December 2003 - 12:05 PM

I say no--Del is a bard, not a fighter. She already has a huge melee advantage is the form of her WW and GWW forms. I've already excluded the most unbalancing aspect of a party werewolf (immunity to normal weapons) in the name of balance.

What makes a good man go neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?


#9 Bri

Bri
  • Gibberlings
  • 3635 posts

Posted 14 December 2003 - 12:16 PM

I say no--Del is a bard, not a fighter. She already has a huge melee advantage is the form of her WW and GWW forms. I've already excluded the most unbalancing aspect of a party werewolf (immunity to normal weapons) in the name of balance.

Yep, you suggested ridding her of the immunity to normal weapons, and I completely concurred.

Heh, mind you, as I said, anyone could think of any exceptions in real life, and stories about both a great warrior and bard, etc, but in the context of the game, she will stay with just one dot to keep balance.
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."

#10 Caedwyr

Caedwyr
  • Modders
  • 1286 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 December 2003 - 12:48 PM

Looking at it from the perspective that 2 stars is the proficiency level of rangers and paladins, then I agree that only 1 star should be put into spears and 1 into the 2-handed weapon use.

#11 BigRob

BigRob

    The Prince of Worthless Trivia

  • Gibberlings
  • 3872 posts
  • Location:Over there.

Posted 14 December 2003 - 04:50 PM

I seem to have come in a bit late for this one, But I agree that Del should only have the normal 1* in spear and 2handed weapon. Skalds (warrioresque bards) are allowed access to weapons not normally used by bards, but they still can't specialise.

I don't think she really needs it anyway.  :D
Aklon: Traveller. Healer. Warrior. Lover. Coming Soon at G3 (I swear!)

Click here to visit Aklon's G3 page.

Cam is on some kind of crack or something... either that, or it's the influence of Dr. Feelgood. - Icelus


The second confusing thing about Australia are the animals. They can be divided into three categories: Poisonous, Odd, and Sheep.

-Douglas Adams

#12 Userunfriendly

Userunfriendly

    Resplendent Beta-Tester of Madness!

  • Members
  • 868 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 14 December 2003 - 05:19 PM

I seem to have come in a bit late for this one, But I agree that Del should only have the normal 1* in spear and 2handed weapon. Skalds (warrioresque bards) are allowed access to weapons not normally used by bards, but they still can't specialise.

I don't think she really needs it anyway.  :D

oh yeah...bards are not really fighters anyway...and of course gww makes up for a lot...especially with two handed weapons... :D

#13 BigRob

BigRob

    The Prince of Worthless Trivia

  • Gibberlings
  • 3872 posts
  • Location:Over there.

Posted 14 December 2003 - 05:44 PM

I'm sure you, as the Lord of the Cheese will have thought of this, but imagine Del with a greater werewolf and Tenser's Transformation on at the same time.

All I can say is.... run.  :D
Aklon: Traveller. Healer. Warrior. Lover. Coming Soon at G3 (I swear!)

Click here to visit Aklon's G3 page.

Cam is on some kind of crack or something... either that, or it's the influence of Dr. Feelgood. - Icelus


The second confusing thing about Australia are the animals. They can be divided into three categories: Poisonous, Odd, and Sheep.

-Douglas Adams

#14 Userunfriendly

Userunfriendly

    Resplendent Beta-Tester of Madness!

  • Members
  • 868 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 14 December 2003 - 05:52 PM

I'm sure you, as the Lord of the Cheese will have thought of this, but imagine Del with a greater werewolf and Tenser's Transformation on at the same time.

All I can say is.... run.  :D

hmmm... i wonder if you cast offensive spin before transformation if it carrys into the werewolf form...

time to experiment!!!

i actually don't use tensors much...regeneration, the cleric spell and improve haste makes even aerie or jan almost unkillable... :D

#15 CamDawg

CamDawg

    Just returned from a triumphant carpet-bombing of Eden 7

  • Gibberling Poobah
  • 8732 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 14 December 2003 - 07:35 PM

All I can say is: thank goodness shapechange can't be placed in a trigger or contingency. UU may have a stroke.  :D

What makes a good man go neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?




Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users