138 replies to this topic

[SixOfSpades]

Gorilym, on Sep 6 2006, 05:42 AM, said:

...what are the odds of Coran getting a hold of two tomes of dexterity? A tweak to give Kagain 19 CON and Coran 18 DEX would be ideal.

Coran is an Elf, and therefore could legally have 19 DEX.

It's my theory that Coran and Kivan started life as the same character, BioWare wanted to make a stereotypical Elven Archer. Later on, they split, and each carried off some of the traits: Kivan was a pureclass Ranger (since they obviously decided not to implement the kits in BG1), and Coran was a Fighter/Thief, but with two illegal quirks left behind to remind us of what he was supposed to be: He has +++ in Bow, and an extra point of DEX. A hyper-Elf, if you will.

Similarly, Kagain is a hyper-Dwarf, with all the characteristics of the archetype doubly reinforced--though, mercifully, BioWare omitted the Scots accent. I'm in favor of keeping the extra stat points on both NPCs, as it gives them extra ways in which to be unique, and makes the player take more qualities into account when weighing potential party members.

[CamDawg]

shadowjcs, on Jun 21 2006, 04:32 AM, said:

I was just finishing SOA and I realized that every time I see the end when Ellisime is giving her speech, she is not talking to the PC, but the fourth member of my party. It happens because of the placement of the party. It's not that big, but it bugs me. Maybe party placement could be 'tweaked'.

I think we're at the point where Tweaks this small are actually detrimental to the overall pack. There are already some 70-80 components (notwithstanding the groupings) to go through and I find myself being a lot more strict about what to code up. For example, the Imoen/Nalia avatar and Viconia skin color tweaks would probably not make it today as they're fairly minor.

Azazello, on Jun 29 2006, 02:16 PM, said:

I've had Alora in my party for the first time eva', and I'm really liking her, thanks in big part to BG1NPC. I think she might start out as a NPC that is initially underpowered (e.g. Aerie), but can truly develop into a useful party member. I'm even considering transporting her into BG2 somehow.

After reading her bio and her character sketch, I think her stats are misplaced:
S D C I W Ch
8 19 12 14 7 10

Yes, Alora is a crack pickpocketer, but no way her Charisma is so low. If I'm reading her history right, she gets into trouble alot but gets out of trouble mostly thru her charm. She doesn't need high Dex just to pickpockets, just place more thieving points in Pickpocketing.

So my request is to have a tweak, similar to Change Jaheira to Neutral Good Alignment, that changes Alora's stats to this:
S D C I W Ch
8 14 12 10 7 19

{I, like many others, can simply change this via I or Shadowkeeper. Just lookin' for another roleplaying tweak.}

This is a fairly radical shift in Alora's personality and abilities, and I'm not entirely in agreement that it's justified by BG1 NPC's character sketch.

As NiGHTMARE already mentioned, keeping proficiencies while dual-classing really isn't possible in any sort of satisfactory way. You could write a script to try and track them, but I can see many situations where it would be flaky and fail.

Gorilym, on Sep 6 2006, 08:42 AM, said:

1: Similar to the make Jaheira Neutral Good component, I'd very much like to see an option to make Korgan Neutral Evil, as Chaotic Evil doesn't really fit his personality at all. I get the feeling the only reason he was set to CE is that the developers wanted to have at least one NPC for each of the nine alignments, and Korgan was the "closest" to being CE.

Sure.

Gorilym, on Sep 6 2006, 08:42 AM, said:

2: It's always annoyed me that two BG1 NPCs have 'illegal' stats - Kagain's 20 CON and Coran's 20 DEX. One could argue that they might've come across some of these lovely tomes, but Kagain doesn't exactly seem the scholarly type, and what are the odds of Coran getting a hold of two tomes of dexterity? A tweak to give Kagain 19 CON and Coran 18 DEX would be ideal.

I've never really had a problem with illegal stats in characters as long as there is something that tries to explain them in RP terms (i.e. Minsc's wisdom and head wound). The BG characters were simply never fleshed out enough to learn whether this was Bio powergaming or if there's a nice legitimate reason why Kagain is a troll. As 6oS already mentions, Coran's 19 dex is legal.

[Gorilym]

SixOfSpades, on Sep 11 2006, 09:51 AM, said:

Coran is an Elf, and therefore could legally have 19 DEX.

I'm sorry, but that's incorrect - Coran is a half-elf, meaning that his legal max is 18 DEX, two lower than his current 20. As such I think Coran's case is rather more egregious than Kagain's.

CamDawg, on Sep 11 2006, 02:22 PM, said:

As 6oS already mentions, Coran's 19 dex is legal.

Again, even if he had a 19 DEX rather than his actual 20, it would still be illegal because he is not a fullblooded elf.

SixOfSpades, on Sep 11 2006, 09:51 AM, said:

I'm in favor of keeping the extra stat points on both NPCs, as it gives them extra ways in which to be unique, and makes the player take more qualities into account when weighing potential party members.

And I respect your opinion, and would not want to force this change upon anyone - I'm proposing this as an optional tweak for those who do want it and not as a "fix" of any kind.

Edited by Gorilym, 12 September 2006 - 04:00 AM.

[Azazello]

Hey CamDawg, have you actually kept Alora in your party? I never did til recently, and gotta say she was fun! And underdeveloped even with BG1NPC. There's nothing radical about what I suggesting. Try her, you'll see.

My suggestion is based on that character sketch. I alter her stats manually, because I know how to. But the change is so minor -- then again, so is Jaheira's alignment change -- even I am willing to withdraw the request.

But on to bigger issues... I too agree that the Tweakpack has too many options. Trouble is, you guyZ agreed to merge packs. Personally, I'ld rather have packs separated per BG1 or BG2, with both compatiable with BP-BGT. I would install one or both mods as needed.

Yes-yes-yes, I understand why the packs are merged, and I accept it, even support it. But we can't cry over spilt milk, when we purposely spilt it.

[SixOfSpades]

Gorilym, on Sep 11 2006, 07:46 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but that's incorrect - Coran is a half-elf, meaning that his legal max is 18 DEX, two lower than his current 20.

No, actually he's a fullblood Elf, all right--just because his portrait is that of a butt-ugly Shadow Thief doesn't mean that he must be part Human.

Quote

And I respect your opinion, and would not want to force this change upon anyone - I'm proposing this as an optional tweak for those who do want it and not as a "fix" of any kind.

Good point--this is very much along the lines of things like "Give BG2 Jaheira, Minsc, and Edwin their BG1 stats," which a lot of players would value for continuity reasons. I have no objections, I just make corrections where needed and try to make sure that all opinions get voiced.

[Gorilym]

SixOfSpades, on Sep 11 2006, 09:34 PM, said:

Gorilym, on Sep 11 2006, 07:46 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but that's incorrect - Coran is a half-elf, meaning that his legal max is 18 DEX, two lower than his current 20.

No, actually he's a fullblood Elf, all right--just because his portrait is that of a butt-ugly Shadow Thief doesn't mean that he must be part Human.

*sigh* Then I guess we must be playing very different versions of BG, because in every game I've ever played Coran is a half-elf. But since I guess you're not going to be convinced by my saying so, how about you load it up and check again? (IIRC, there's even a reference to him being a half-elf in his short SoA appearance as well, so if you don't have BG1 files handy you could check that) His portraits are hideous though, no contest there.

SixOfSpades, on Sep 11 2006, 09:34 PM, said:

Good point--this is very much along the lines of things like "Give BG2 Jaheira, Minsc, and Edwin their BG1 stats," which a lot of players would value for continuity reasons. I have no objections, I just make corrections where needed and try to make sure that all opinions get voiced.

I'm glad we can agree on this at least.

Edited by Gorilym, 12 September 2006 - 03:59 AM.

[NiGHTMARE]

You must have been using the same mod in every game you've ever played then, because Coran is most definitely an elf in the unmodded game .

[Gorilym]

NiGHTMARE, on Sep 11 2006, 10:52 PM, said:

You must have been using the same mod in every game you've ever played then, because Coran is most definitely an elf in the unmodded game .

Indeed, having gone back and actually checked, I see now the error of my ways. Coran is for all intents and purposes an elf (if not a convincing one ) I wonder how my memory could have gotten so warped though. I think I'll blame it on a combination of not having had Coran in a party for a few years, and (what I perceive to be) his sheer unelfishness.

[Andyr]

It's the portrait--doesn't really look elven...

[Miloch]

There is some suggestion that the Find Familiar spell (in both BG2 and Tutu) is a bit of a joke, if not an outright cheat. Apparently the alleged risk of losing a point of constitution is no risk at all since you can keep the familiar in your backpack the entire game. The HP addition from the spell would be even more unbalancing in Tutu than in BG2. I rarely play mages so it's not a huge issue to me but I thought I'd mention it (see this thread for more details).

[Grim Squeaker]

Quote

The HP addition from the spell would be even more unbalancing in Tutu than in BG2.

I believe Tutu Fixpack has an optional component to half the amount you get in Tutu. So it's 6/12/24 for Tutu/SoA/ToB respectively (assuming I'm remembering the values correctly).

[Miloch]

Ah... cool. Thanks for the info. Kinda hard to get at since there's no Tutufix readme on PPG (that I can find anyway) and even in the readme that I have (v17) in the tutufix folder there's no direct reference to the component or what it does. There is an obscure reference to "Rebalanced Familiars no longer crashing the game" in the version history though.

[CamDawg]

NE Korgan and Kagain's 19 CON are coded for v4.

[Gorilym]

CamDawg, on Jan 30 2007, 05:59 PM, said:

NE Korgan and Kagain's 19 CON are coded for v4.

Yay!

Looking forward to it.