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New component idea

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#1 Silverstar

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:41 AM

I like the SCSII component which takes party's items at Spellhold. It is a refreshing change for me. Can a similiar component be coded for BG1 part, when the party's imprisoned in Candlekeep? It still does not make sense to me that the party is confounded behind bars but has all of its magical equipment.

When the monk comes to rescue the party and sends them to the Candlekeep catacombs, he can give the party a bag of holding with some basic equipment, very much like Bodhi does in Spellhold. Catacombs are not exceedingly deadly, monsterwise, it's traps and bouncing lightning bolts that kill any player there most of the time. So it should not make for a very difficult venture.

But how and where should the party recollect its possesions? Maybe a few alternative options can be done:

A)they are gone for good! (harsh, but for the extremely hardcore and dedicated players, the party should do some scavenging to get reasonable equipments to face Sarevok. Ofcourse, power players can store some 'second-rate' equipment in somewhere safe before going to Candlekeep. ) Another option can be made about party's gold, should the monk return it too? He might say 'the gold was not heavily guarded as equipment so here they are'.

B)The party's items are stored in a bag of holding, which Prat's party (Sarevok's henchmen at the exit caves of Catacombs) have. A new line of dialogue may be inserted that Prat has had the items stolen somehow.

C)I am not sure if this can be coded correctly, but Prat's party can equip the party's stolen items. But in reasonable ways ofcourse. So the best armor goes to fighter type, weapons to those who can use them, etc. This can make that battle more difficult. Party will have to loot the tomb's magical items to counter Prat's party's new toys. Perhaps some more mundane magical equipment can be put in Catacombs, like some +2 weapons to deal with Air elementals.

What do you think?

#2 Salk

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:21 PM

I like your idea.

But solution 1 is way too harsh. At that point the player has collected many unique and powerful items and having them gone does not seem fair. Number 2 would be just right but then we'll have to wonder why those items are there with Prat? Solution 3 is not feasible because it implies that the items have been put to use rather than stored for later (and in that case all those precious items would be in Sarevok's hands, not in theirs...)

#3 Silverstar

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:51 PM

Yes I agree that even for the sake of the added challenge, the storyline still needs to make sense.

I know solution 1 is harsh but it is intended to be. It's for the dedicated player who needs a new challenge and breath of fresh air into the game. When the best items are gone, the party should scavenge and do some more adventuring/questing etc. to get reasonable equipment. Suddenly, mundane magical stuff sold to vendors weeks ago seem very important. 'Umm where did I sell that studded leather +1, I NEED it now!' Also, player is used to party's items/strategies in general up to this point, and from now on one needs to improvise and find new tactics and items, which can make the game so much interesting all of a sudden, IMHO.

As for getting items back, Prat might have 'finally' broken into the magical storeroom in which party's items are stored. A new dialogue line can be added 'At last! Sarevok's going to reward us greatly for these stuff, boys! We'll have ale and wenches!' etc. (then he notices the party) 'Hold! You guys have escaped?!' and than the usual dialogue ensues, maybe with a reference to party's items in Prat's bag. It makes sense as Prat has just freshly acquired the bag of holding in which party's items are, when the party comes upon them (as it so happens) so Prat's party did not have time to check the items and equip them, if possible. Just an idea. There may be more elegant solutions, though. :)

#4 Salk

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 03:49 AM

All you wrote makes sense.

Personally I would still choose solution 2. Your dialogue suggestion is already fair but I think it's possible to find an even more elegant solution, as you yourself thought.

We'll see what DavidW is going to say about this. :)

#5 Anomaly

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:56 AM

I like the idea.

The solution A is not acceptable because unspoiled players would loose unique artefacts, and spoiled players would stash them before going to Candlekeep to recover them later, but why would PCs do that, unless with heavy metagaming?

#6 joshuar9476

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:15 AM

i agree with everyone here ... this is an awesome idea. i liked this idea in the classic adventures mod as well.
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#7 Silverstar

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:42 AM

Option A is for the veteran player who wants that extra edge of difficulty. On installation there may be a warning like: 'party's items will be gone for good, if it is not your cup of tea, don't install this option!' Ofcourse, powergaming party can store most of its cool stuff in a stash before going to Candlekeep, but then again, what's the point of installing this in the first place? It's like installing Hard Times mod and then adding 100k gold to party via console. This option is there to make the game quite more difficult, but in a different, unique way. Player must stop Sarevok and his evil goons but will have to do it without his favourite tools.

I have tons of magical equipment in my current game, thanks to DSoTC, Greyclan, Secret of the Bonehill, Stone of Askavar, Dark Horizons mods. We have just returned to Candlekeep. I will use Shadowkeeper to delete all of my items AND gold once we are in Catacombs. And give party some mundane stuff. Things will be interesting as we are now far TOO powerful for the rest of the game. It would be wonderful if a mod component did these for me, it kinda breaks the game's immersion.

On another note, I have sold tons of magical equipment here and there, I will have to scavenge and try to get best stuff. But since my gold will be gone too, I will need to do some adventuring first. It's the perfect excuse to go to Durlag's Tower now, for example. Also, IIRC Secret of Bonehill part 2 starts soon after Candlekeep section and it is nice to re-equip the party too!

Ofcourse this is my game and playstyle, but I think the general idea is nice. Those who want the items back can get them from Prat's cold, dead hands, thus this component can have several options upon installation, from the most severe to most merciful. A)Candlekeep has all the items and party's gold, they are gone for good! B)Items are gone for good, but the monk gives the party its gold back (in a new dialogue) C)Items are in Prat's bag of holding, but gold is donated to Candlekeep, gone for good. D)Items are in Prat's bag of holding, and the monk gives the party its gold back

#8 Gimble

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

I like the idea in general, although you would need to provide some basic equipment at the beginning of the catacombs, to not greatly handicap non-spellcasting parties.

One way to give the player access to the items would be to add dialog to the guard outside Candlekeep. Unknown to CHARNAME (until now), he also runs a smuggling operation in and out of Candlekeep, and willing to smuggle items (including claimed equipment) out of Candlekeep to the PC for an appropriate bribe. The dialog could get wordy, though, unless there's a way to add the items via script to a custom Store the guard has access to (in which case it might be fairly easy to implement).

#9 plainab


    Sasha al'Therin

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:33 PM

what about when the player gets imprisoned in BG, sure they escape out a hole in the wall or something but shouldn't their equipment be taken then too? Just a thought. If you are gonna do something like this to one situation why not to ALL such situations....
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#10 Miloch



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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:53 PM

Hmm, yeah. Especially since there are teleportation devices in the game (e.g. boots of the pub from Aurora) - never thought about that. Someone have a list of all prison areas?
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#11 DavidW

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:25 PM

I'm not averse in principle but it's now ages since I've played BG1 and I don't want to do this blind and risk damaging plot coherence. I'll think about it after the next time I play through.

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