7 replies to this topic

[Onox]

Hi,

I have a game just at the beginning of BG II with my plain level 8 fighter imported from BG I, and I am seeing strange things about the number of attacks per round. I have BG II + ToB + latest official patch + fixpack installed. I also installed tweaks from the tweakpack, in particular for the weapons :
True Grandmastery
Alter Weapon Proficiency System -> BG-Style Weapon Proficiencies, With Weapon Styles (the bigg) (because I've always found silly to have so many different proficiencies for each weapon)

My fighter's weapon proficiencies are :
Bow ++
Large Sword ++++

Now, if my fighter has no weapon equipped, he gets 3/2 attacks.
If I equip a weapon for which he has no proficiency point, eg. an axe, he gets only 1 attack.

I know that fighters, rangers and paladins are supposed to receive an extra-half attack at level 7, at least that's what my french paper manual from BG I states, and that's what happened in BG I if I recall correctly (weirdly, I checked an english pdf manual and it states one extra attack (not half) !).
But do you gain the extra (half-?)attack only if you are specialised in the weapon ?

Now, with a normal Long Sword, my fighter with ++++ in Large Sword gets 2 attacks...
If I use the cheat code to level him to the next level (9) and put a 5th + in Large Sword, he jumps to 3 attacks with his Long Sword ?!

Using cheat codes to level up, I then tested the following : equipping an axe...
0 proficiency point -> 1 attack
1 point -> 3/2
2 points -> 2
3 points -> 5/2
4 points -> 5/2
5 points -> 7/2 ?!
Even more weird, if at this point (I am level 21 now) I equip my long sword, still with ++++, I now get 5/2 attacks and not 2 like above !

All of this seems completely inconsistent to me. For 5 points in Axe, I would have expected to get 5/2 attacks and not 7/2, because 2 attacks for being Grandmaster and +1/2 for being > level 7.

Am I not understanding something ?

A question, too : does True Grandmastery only restore Grandmastery to what it was in BG I, as its description says, or does it restore the entire un-nerfed table from BG I (because if I look at the To Hit Bonus, that's what the tweak actually seems to do) ?

Edited by Onox, 05 February 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[Dakk]

 Onox, on 05 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

A question, too : does True Grandmastery only restore Grandmastery to what it was in BG I, as its description says, or does it restore the entire un-nerfed table from BG I (because if I look at the To Hit Bonus, that's what the tweak actually seems to do) ?

As far as I can tell, from the BG1 manual, the True Grandmastery restores the entire BG1 proficiency table - except for a (spurious) full attack instead of a ½ attack on grandmastery.

Some interesting reading can be had here; Revised Grandmastery (not BG2Tweak, minimod from author of IR).

[Onox]

Ok, I did more tests for melee weapons and think I have understood (if someone could confirm the following is correct) :

- Fighters/Paladins/Rangers receive an extra half-attack at level 7
- They also get another extra half-attack at level 13 (I did not know this)
- However, you get these two half-attacks only if you are at least proficient in the weapon used, unless you fight with your bare hands
- becoming specialized (++) in a weapon grants + 1/2 attack
- and True Grandmastery gives another +1 attack (thank you Dakk, I thought it only gave +1/2 at first) for 5 +

[lynx]

sure, they're all warriors. Can't confirm just the last part, since mods are involved (iirc it is 1/2 in the original).

[tyr-vedra]

 Onox, on 05 February 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Using cheat codes to level up, I then tested the following : equipping an axe...
0 proficiency point -> 1 attack
1 point -> 3/2
2 points -> 2

Hey, I just noticed this the other day and had me confused as well. Jaheira had 1 point in Quarterstaff for 3/2 ("three and a half"?) attacks per round, according to the character sheet. When I leveled her to 2 points in Quarterstaff (same weapon equipped), it dropped to 2 attacks per round.

How does that make any sense? I have since uninstalled "True Grandmastery" and there is no change, so if that is the correct behavior it seems strange to me.

I also just picked up Korgan and he joined with 1 point in Axe instead of 5 that he should have. And leveling him up only gives 1 point to spend. I'm thinking "TOB-style NPCs" is to blame for that. (?)

[lynx]

3/2 is 1,5 is lower than 2, so the progression makes sense. For some unknown reason they decided to count the number of attacks in two rounds for non-integers. Likely so you aren't making half attacks each round.

[tyr-vedra]

Ah, so 3/2 = "three attacks per two rounds". Got it, thanks. (No wonder I was confused!)

[lebigmac]

pen and paper version is pretty simple, and very unbalanced.

1 slot gives you basic access with no boni or penalties
2 slots gives you half an extra attack
5 slots gives you another whole attack on top of that.

inbetween there are som dmg, hit and speed boni too.

warrior classes get half an extra attack at 7 and 13.
multiclass cant get more than 2 in anything. I believe bg1 follows this pretty well (though you cannot get 5 since that requires lvl 9, due to proficiency progression and having a max of 2 at lvl 1, also pen and paper explicitly requires lvl 5 I think, for the 3rd slot)