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Imported Items fom BG1

Horn/Claw of Kazgaroth etc

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#1 lroumen

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 02:32 AM

I am absolutely enjoying the mod and though it takes getting used to, it is quite a bit more fun to see what drops every time than when you have memorized pretty much all of the vanilla item drops. I find myself using and memorising identify quite a bit more than formerly ;).

As for my question. I searched the forum but it could not find anything related. I see in the documentation that the helm of balduran is randomised, but nothing on the mail of the dead+2 nor the alternatives for the helm of balduran should one import a character from BG1.

Therefore I was wondering what would happen if I import a character from BG1 and start the game afresh.
1. Would you randomise the imported item (I presume not)
or
2. assume that the helm of balduran is imported and remove it from its container (where it might not be) and as such, would I then find one or two items in the location where the helm is normally found in Irenicus' Dungeon (e.g. claw of kazgaroth + a randomised item)?

Do you have plans to include the randomisation of imported items in later versions or did I miss it in the readme?

Thanks in advance for reading.

#2 Wisp

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:43 AM

I am glad to hear you are enjoying yourself :)

Yes, currently the other items you can import are not randomised. This means you will find them in Irenicus's dungeon as usual.

The Helm of Balduran is randomised implicitly, unless it has been removed from the item list. By that I mean that you will always find the Helm somewhere in BG2, regardless of whether you would have found the it in the dungeon or not. There is no random item given instead of the Helm, so you would not find a random item in addition to the imported item.

Thus, if you import, say, the Claw of Kazgaroth you would find the Claw on the usual shelf in the dungeon and, sometime later, the Helm.

As I recall, the reason the other items you can import are not randomised is because it is technically difficult to do it. I will think it over and try to see if there is not some half-way decent way to accomplish it.

#3 lroumen

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 02:33 AM

Thank you for the explanation.
I was thinking a bit further about it though and I figured that it may depend on the randomization modes that you have made available to the player.

If I do an in-game randomisation and I have for instance the claw of kazgaroth in the box, I should still find it there but you would not come across the helm later since it is absent and thus cannot be randomised. Or, would I lose one item here from the same tier as the helm (or possibly the helm itself)?
And if I randomise using weidu, it is presumed that I would have the helm in the box and thus it is randomised and replaced by a different item. Then the import takes place when I start a new game and I would also get the claw in the box (thus two items).

Or maybe I am thinking about it too much and I should just play the game :). At least what I really wanted to know is whether they would be randomised and that answer is a clear no :).

Edited by lroumen, 29 January 2012 - 02:34 AM.


#4 Wisp

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:24 AM

If I do an in-game randomisation and I have for instance the claw of kazgaroth in the box, I should still find it there but you would not come across the helm later since it is absent and thus cannot be randomised. Or, would I lose one item here from the same tier as the helm (or possibly the helm itself)?

You would find both the Claw and the Helm.

And if I randomise using weidu, it is presumed that I would have the helm in the box and thus it is randomised and replaced by a different item. Then the import takes place when I start a new game and I would also get the claw in the box (thus two items).

As I mentioned, the Helm is not replaced by a random item. You would only find one item (the imported one, assuming it is not the Helm).

#5 lroumen

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:05 PM

It's very clear now. Thanks :).

#6 Toverkol

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 08:52 AM

Hmm, interesting question of which i might want to incorporate some of in my games.

I have a habit of manually converting a number of items when i leave BG1 for BG2, along with the party i held. I've been toning the number of presents i take along down for balance issues over time, but reading the above i thought of another interesting way to go about somewhat retaining some of my precious presents i found in BG1.

Would it be harmless to add on the say twenty items i take along with me in the second installment onto the randomiser lists in a respective tier?
(With identifier x, and of course checking if the files of the items i want to come with me are valid and safe, and keeping the soft limit of tiers in mind).

Hmm, to that end, another question that pops from typing this: What is the source of this soft limit?
Does it have something to do with the number of distinct locations within each tier, which would mean the limit is upped by adding locations?
And from that, how would i go about adding a location? Is it as easy as identifying the source and area of the location i'd like to add, and voila, stuff drops?

Edited by Toverkol, 12 March 2012 - 08:53 AM.


#7 Wisp

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

Would it be harmless to add on the say twenty items i take along with me in the second installment onto the randomiser lists in a respective tier?
(With identifier x, and of course checking if the files of the items i want to come with me are valid and safe, and keeping the soft limit of tiers in mind).

Provided all the normal conditions are met (item resource exists. etc.) it is generally safe. What will happen is that some locations will drop more loot than otherwise, to make up for the excess of items.

Hmm, to that end, another question that pops from typing this: What is the source of this soft limit? Does it have something to do with the number of distinct locations within each tier, which would mean the limit is upped by adding locations?

It is a result of the inefficiency of the IE scripting system, coupled with certain of the mod's design constraints. Simply put, as the number of items in a tier increases, so does the time needed to fully randomise the tier. At a certian point it just takes too long. You could go up to the full 35 or 36 items per tier (or whatever the hard limit is), but the randomisation process could take hours. Increasing the number of distinct locations within a tier makes the randomisation process go faster, so it could conceivably be used to reach the hard limit.
(I am pretty sure I have mentioned it, but in case I have not, these limits only apply to mode 1.)

And from that, how would i go about adding a location? Is it as easy as identifying the source and area of the location i'd like to add, and voila, stuff drops?

Yeah, that is about it.

#8 Toverkol

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 07:07 AM

Thanks for clearing that up as well, wisp.

Im sure to have a good bit of fun adding on locations and altering tiers to mix up the expansions with the main games along with some personal rebalancing. Even more now i know mode 2 isnt bothered by those limits, didnt spot that before.



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