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Problem with Kivan's bow


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#16 Nilfalasiel

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 06:47 AM

Just looked at the equipped effects for the cloak, and, indeed, they're all set to "while equipped".

I still get the impression that something's wrong with it though, as it shouldn't be wearable by all the characters that I've mentioned previously. Only Minsc, Valygar and Kivan should be able to equip it. And why is its proficiency requirement set to Long Swords?

This would probably be easier if I could figure out how to attach that .itm file...

Eh well, I guess I can just make a mental note to unequip the cloak before I try to change Kivan's weapon and leave it at that.
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#17 Miloch

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 08:20 PM

Only cleric/rangers and rangers should be able to wear the cloak, based on what you described for the usability flags. If the fighter/thief box isn't checked, and Coran is a F/T, he shouldn't be able to wear it. If so, there's something odd on your install. Or they could be affected by the "use any item" effect, but I doubt that. I think that's a thief high-level ability.

The "large sword proficiency" means "no proficiency" outside of the BG1 weapon system, since its value is zero. Non-weapons will always have that, as they don't use proficiencies.

If you can't attach things, send a PM to the admins (currently theacefes and Grim Squeaker I think). The new forum is kinda screwy in that respect, but if you go into your settings, you should have some small space for uploads/attachments and then you can reference them in posts (in theory). Or just start a new post on shsforums.net and link it - they're more liberal on attachment space. But from the sound of it, there is nothing wrong with the item, so it must be something else. You might try removing all items/spells from the characters in question and then just give them the one item to equip, see if it still happens.
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#18 Nilfalasiel

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:13 AM

Since I've noticed that the "Attach Files" option now appears below my post input screen, I figured I'd look into this issue some more (better late than never, I guess).

Fully kitted out, Kivan has:

White Dragon Scale
Bracers of Archery
Lavender Ioun Stone
Amulet of Protection +1
Ring of Protection +1
Ring of Protection +2
Montolio's Cloak
Boots of Avoidance
Girdle of Bluntness
Taralash +5 (bow)
Ravager +6 (halberd)
Storm Star +5 (mace, in case of golems)
Quiver of Plenty +2
1117 Arrows +3
40 Flight Arrows (special item he makes during one of his talks, same as Arrows +3)

With all that, his AC is -12. He has no magical buffs apart from those granted by equipment (Protection from Cold from the White Dragon Scale). At this stage, equipping his bow instead of Taralash has no effect on AC, but unequipping it (and putting Taralash back on) raises it to -11. Then -10, then -9, etc.

I reload and take all his gear off.

- In the buff, his AC is 6. When I put his bow on him, it doesn't change, because, without any arrows, it doesn't count as equipped. Normal.

- Then I add the Girdle of Bluntness, Bracers of Archery and Boots of Avoidance (ie. accessories which shouldn't affect AC). Still no AC change, with or without the bow. Normal.

- I then add the Quiver of Plenty +2. The bow counts as equipped, and therefore his AC drops to 5. Unequipping the bow brings it to 6, reequipping it brings it back to 5. Same effect with the other arrows. Normal.

- Then the Ravager +6. AC goes back to 6, since the halberd now counts as equipped instead of the bow. Reequipping the bow brings it back to 5. Normal.

- Then the Storm Star +5, and now the fun starts. AC drops to 4, which is odd, since not only is the bow not equipped, but the Storm Star has no AC bonuses on it. I switch back to the bow, and the AC changes to 5.

- Lavender Ioun Stone is next. It has a "+1 bonus to AC" property. When I unequip the bow, the AC goes back to 5 and stays at 5 when I reequip it. I unequip it again, it drops back to 6. I reequip it, 5 again. Unequipping and reequipping the Ioun Stone doesn't change it back to 4.

- The exact same thing happens with the Amulet of Protection +1, then with the Ring of Protection +1. AC is therefore still at 5.

- The Ring of Protection +2 seems to work normally: AC drops to 3. Unequipping the bow brings it to 5, reequipping it brings it back to 3.

- The White Dragon Scale also appears to work normally. It has an AC of -2, so Kivan's AC jumps to -9 when I equip it. -8 when I unequip the bow, -9 again when I reequip it.

- And finally, Montolio's Cloak (+1 to AC). When I equip it, AC drops to -10. When I unequip the bow, it goes back to -9 and stays at -9 when I reequip it. I unequip it again, it goes to -8, then back down to -9 when I reequip it again.

End result: from an AC of -12, I end up with an AC of -9. Lost 3 points of AC along the way. Switching weapons to Storm Star at this point knocks it down to -10. But putting Taralash back on instead of Kivan's Bow doesn't bring back the missing AC.

However! If I now proceed to remove everything except Kivan's Bow, then put everything back on, I end up with an AC of -13. Which is what I should have gotten if I'd simply swapped it with Taralash to begin with.

Additionally! If I reload and now switch from Taralash to Storm Star, the AC drops from -12 to -13, but when I switch back to Taralash, it goes up to -11. Further swapping changes nothing: still -11 instead of -12.

Removing everything (AC: 6) and equipping Storm Star on its own results in an AC of 4. There's an "AC +2" happening somewhere here.

- I try equipping the Storm Star on the other characters in the party: Keldorn, Jaheira, Sarevok and Coran. Nothing happens, no effect on AC. Normal.

- I then try equipping it on my character. She has the Erinne Sling +5 and the Staff of the Magi (AC+2, among other things). With the former, her AC is -1. With the latter, it's -3. Equipping the Storm Star instead of either one of those weapons brings her AC to -2. Removing it returns things to normal: AC at -1 with the Sling, -3 with the Staff. Hmm...

Bottom line? Kivan's Bow doesn't appear to play nice with other items which grant an "AC +1" bonus (which is what Montolio's Cloak, Lavender Ioun Stone, Amulet of Protection +1 and Ring of Protection +1 have in common). AC bonuses of more than 1 are fine. So you were right that it's not specifcally Montolio's Cloak which is the problem, my bad.

But there appears to be an additional problem with Storm Star. I've zipped and attached both its .itm file and the Montolio's Cloak .itm file, just in case.

Attached Files


Edited by Nilfalasiel, 04 April 2012 - 03:15 AM.

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#19 berelinde

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:00 AM

What is the requested action? When you equip a character with such a salad of magic items, I'm not sure it's possible for everything to add up exactly the same way in all combinations. Storm Star, Montolio's Cloak, etc. are vanilla game items, so if you're looking for a fix there, you'd be better off in the BG2 Fixpack topic. Let me know if you want me to move the post(s) or link the thread.
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#20 Nilfalasiel

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:19 AM

The thing is, I don't know where the problem is coming from. I'm still trying to figure out whether this is inherent to Kivan's Bow, or whether it's a more general issue specific to my install. As far as I can tell, there *is* some kind of conflict between Kivan's Bow and other items which grant +1 AC. The Storm Star problem is probably unrelated, it's just that I've only discovered it now while tinkering with Kivan's equipment (it also doesn't seem to affect anyone except Kivan and my character). Still, if you think that this isn't an issue with the bow itself, then by all means, move the topic. Sorry if I'm causing a muddle!

Edited by Nilfalasiel, 04 April 2012 - 07:23 AM.

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#21 plainab

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:29 AM

Question: Can you get any other AC funkiness without Kivan's bow? Meaning if you completely leave the bow out of the equation but mix and match the other items, do any of them produce similar results?
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#22 Nilfalasiel

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:04 AM

Question: Can you get any other AC funkiness without Kivan's bow? Meaning if you completely leave the bow out of the equation but mix and match the other items, do any of them produce similar results?


Just tried it, and no, everything seems to behave as it should if I leave Kivan's Bow out of the equation.

Except the Storm Star. That still mysteriously grants AC+2 to Kivan and AC+1 to my character whenever I equip it. Has no effect on the other characters in the party. Maybe it's the Storm Star I should be reporting in the BG2 Fixpack section?
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#23 plainab

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

if you leave the storm star out of the equation and everything else works fine, do you then still have problems with Kivan's bow?
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#24 berelinde

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:42 AM

Maybe. And if Storm Star is the problem, and if Kivan's bow used Storm Star as a template, that could be exacerbating the problem

I'm going to be honest with you. Domi is retired and items just aren't my thing. If it's "crash the game" broken, I'll fix it, but if it's a bizarre collection of hard-to-nail-down quirks that show up once in a blue moon, I don't anticipate ever getting around to it. That said, if somebody else feels like making it consistent - the same thing happens each and every time the item is equipped - I've got no problem appropriating the fixes. With due credit to whoever does the work, naturally.
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#25 plainab

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:48 PM

Kivan's bow is nothing like Storm Star, highly doubt that was used as a base.

I clua'd in just about everything mentioned in your test a few posts above. My character can't equip Kivan's bows because she isn't Kivan :p I don't have any item restriction removal type mods in place so I can't equip everything at the same time. However, I can get down to an AC of 0, but no amount of switching weapons causes the Storm Star to change the AC.

referring back to an earlier post:

Actually, I just took a look again, and I have apparently tweaked Kivan's DEX (didn't seem right to me that an archer didn't even have an 18). Now, this is odd, because I'm almost positive that I did this *after* the playthrough I'm having issues with, and changes shouldn't be applied retroactively, should they?

does this mean that you played the game once, made some changes, played the game again and have gone back to an older save that was before you made said changes?

Can you try starting a brand new game, use the CLUAConsole to import all the items you are having issues with & of course Kivan so you can test with him, then run the gambit of equipping and unequipping items to see if you can reproduce the issue? Maybe something that was changed between your playthrough and now when you are trying to use the same playthrough is affecting it.

(or rather "usuable", seems to be a typo there)

I can confirm the typo on the cloak. However, I didn't install any GTU changes for BGT so I can't say if BG2 fixpack missed it or not.
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#26 Miloch

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:21 AM

Frankly, I think it's an engine glitch with putting AC bonuses on launchers. If someone can replicate it with vanilla items, that would confirm it, because I can't see any obvious issues with the ones described. If there's not a vanilla launcher with an AC bonus, any other one will do.
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#27 berelinde

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:33 AM

File it as "Not a bug/No action"?
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#28 Nilfalasiel

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:53 AM

Should I still bother checking on a new game then, or just forget about it?
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#29 plainab

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

that's up to you. if you do check a new game and clua in all those items and test 'em out in multiple combinations and the problem does not exist, then it is most likely due to save game funkiness where some of the data is stored in the save and some of the data is being pulled from game resources and its getting confused :p

However if you do get the weird behavior even with a fresh new game, it could be as Miloch said an engine oddity when adding an AC bonus to a launcher
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#30 Miloch

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:36 PM

File it as "Not a bug/No action"?

Well it's probably a bug, just probably not a bug specifically with Kivan's bow. It might be fixable by putting four separate effects on the bow instead of the AC effect. So instead of type0 (AC all), one for type1 (crushing), type2 (missile), type4( piercing) and type8 (slashing). We have some boots in Aurora like that, though our reason for doing them like that was to circumvent something else as I recall (the AC cap or something, due to player input).
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