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One major issue I noticed with the Kivan mod


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#1 Guest_RunQ_*

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:34 PM

It has been quite a while since I played Baldur's Gate with this mod, but I remember seeing issues, and since the mod has not been updated since then (I used v12), I figured I would just throw the observations "out there" in case it is something simple to fix :)

I'm sorry that I can not even provide a Weidu.log but I don't have it left. Also, consider the fact that I played a BWP install, and as such, it might not be the Kivan mod that is at fault. But even if that would be the case, then maybe a compatibility solution can be found.

The problem was with the whole "Deheriana thing" and her resurrection. I observed the very same problem on 2 different installs which probably rules out a fluke.

First, I played a BWP install (no "Big mods" and very few NPC mods). I was male, was not a healing class, and I did not have Aerie or Cernd either. Kivan worked perfectly fine until the resurrection of Deheriana. She came there, in her "not restored" form and I expected great rejoice. But not so. Nobody really spoke to her, least of all Kivan. I also expected her ultimate demise, since there were no healers around. But not so either. As a matter of fact, nothing more really happened. No speaking, no cutscenes, no death. And at the end of SoA, nothing. And she and Kivan transfered into ToB as well. They didn't make a sound there either. And both had "nothing to say" when I tried to force talk to them. I kicked them both out from fear that my game would be messed up otherwise.

Secondly, a while after this, my girlfriend played on a new/fresh install of BWP (no "Big mods" and very few NPC mods). She played as female, was not a healing class either, but she had Aerie with her but not Cernd. She did not romance Kivan. And the exact same problem happened for her. No talking, and no wonderful resurrection either. And then they appear in ToB with "nothing to say".

I must say, that with this absolutely brilliant mod, this was a real letdown. This mod is one of the finest and most interesting NPC mods that I have tried, and I really wanted a conclusion to his story. I will soon play through Baldur's gate once more, and I intend to include Kivan again, and finish it this time, and I will go heartbroken if this happens again! :)

Anyway, Berelinde, I hope you can look at this, but I know it is not much to go on. Heres hoping that it's something obvious. I always suspected the banter packs and such, but what do I know (Crossmod Banter pack was installed on both installs though).

If you wish to know which mods I had installed, then just ask, but it was (more or less) the "recommended" (green) ones here: http://kerzenburg.ba....eu/bwpmods.php

#2 berelinde

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:23 PM

Even if you installed only the green mods, I would not attempt a detailed troubleshooting attempt without a weidu.log. Even with one, it would be nigh impossibe. Nobody knows the ins and outs of all of that. What components of which green mods, which after-market patches,etc. And you don't have variable values, saved games, or anything else to go on.

Don't get me wrong. I definitely will look at the code and see if I can spot any logic failures, but I can't make any promises.

Edit: And let's not get carried away with the hyperbole. When a modder reads "major issue" they expect motherboard implosion, hanging cutscenes during the Irenicus fight, or at the very least a CTD. I'm sure you do feel cheated, missing out on Demin's "She's gone beyond recall," and I'm not saying that this deserves to to be ignored, but priority goes to stuff that breaks the game.

Edited by berelinde, 01 November 2011 - 03:41 PM.

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#3 Guest_RunQ_*

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:29 AM

Even if you installed only the green mods, I would not attempt a detailed troubleshooting attempt without a weidu.log. Even with one, it would be nigh impossibe. Nobody knows the ins and outs of all of that. What components of which green mods, which after-market patches,etc. And you don't have variable values, saved games, or anything else to go on.

Yes, I fully understand that, and if this happens again in my next install then I will make sure to do some hunting with the variables, keep saves, and obviously save the weidu.log etc, and report this more properly.

Don't get me wrong. I definitely will look at the code and see if I can spot any logic failures, but I can't make any promises.

Thanks. I didnt expect much effort with what I provided but who knows, with some luck it might be one of thoose "ohhh I see what you did there" moments I guess :)

Edit: And let's not get carried away with the hyperbole. When a modder reads "major issue" they expect motherboard implosion, hanging cutscenes during the Irenicus fight, or at the very least a CTD. I'm sure you do feel cheated, missing out on Demin's "She's gone beyond recall," and I'm not saying that this deserves to to be ignored, but priority goes to stuff that breaks the game.

Well, maybe I explained this poorly, but it kind of seemed that it broke Kivan (and Deheriana) completely, in the sense that the mod did not seem to progress anymore. It seemed "stuck" if that makes sense? Kivan was very verbal up until that point (banters, interjections, etc) but after this odd event, got totally silent, even in ToB. It is true that it did not break the game as such, but I used the word "major" to imply that it possibly broke Kivan totally, not just some cutscenes :) but I apologize if my wording was inappropriate.

#4 berelinde

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:58 AM

Er... if you're hoping to have a grieving and vocal Kivan accompany you through ToB, I wouldn't get your hopes up, if I were you. I don't want to say more because of spoilers. If you really don't know what happens on this path and actively want those spoilers, shoot me a PM.

It's possible this path was never thoroughly tested. Not a lot of players drag him through the whole game, don't plan to romance him, AND don't plan to reunite him with Deheriana. Granted, if the content is in the mod, it should be accessible, but it isn't a scenario that comes up a lot.
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#5 Guest_RunQ_*

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:01 AM

Not a lot of players drag him through the whole game, don't plan to romance him, AND don't plan to reunite him with Deheriana.

I see your point :) but in the second example where my girlfriend played with him in the party, she had Aerie, and yet, nothing at all happened, either negative or positive and definetly not some healing process.

And regarding content, I have looked in this forum in the "ToB content" sticky, and none of that fired.

I hope this does not seem that I mistrust your words - i'm just trying to clarify what happened so you have at least a little bit to go on :)

#6 berelinde

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 12:00 PM

Alright, in your GF's game, something went wrong. Demin should have said something to Kivan about her. If you were really and truly using v12, that is. If you were using somebody else's repackaged version and *thinking* it was v12, who knows what you really got. I've lost track of the number of times I've fielded posts "Yeah, I was using the latest version, I swear it" and then when they finally do send the weidu.log, it turns out the version they were using was long outdated. IIRC, there *was* a bug in an old version where females who were even moderately friendly to Kivan throughout the game were unable to raise Deheriana no matter what they did because the "love" variable was too high. If your "good samaritan" mod repackager was using that version, you'd never know it.

Another possibility is that somebody else's mod is doing something destructive to Demin's dialogue file. Without a weidu.log, there's no way to know.

As for the reason YOU got no ToB content, there's a really, really good reason you never got that content, and you're determined to make me divulge spoilers, aren't you. Very well. Scroll down...
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If Deheriana is not raised, there is no ToB content for either of them because Deheriana's soul is in Arvandor and Kivan wills himself to die during the interval between SoA and ToB. So one way or another, Kivan would be going into ToB romanced, either with the PC or with Deheriana. Or he'd be dead. No other choices.

Edit: And yeah, I'm starting to think that the repackaged mod did use an old version. The poster said that the readme was out of date, but the online readme, which is the same as the readme packaged with the mod, is perfectly up to date. So, yeah, old version.

Edited by berelinde, 02 November 2011 - 12:20 PM.

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#7 berelinde

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:01 AM

I spent a good two hours trying to figure out why you didn't get closure of one kind or another and found nothing. Since it looks like game scripts are borked too, I'm starting to suspect that you may have developed reinstallation issues at one point or another. Before you start a new game with ANY combination of mods, I would strongly recommend starting with a clean install. Instructions here. And when you do rebuild your installation, I would recommend forgoing the mega-mod route. I know it's tempting to instal mods thinking "Maybe I'll want to do those extra quests or recruit that NPC I've never tried before," but usually what happens is that you wind up never touching the content or getting so fed up with mod conflicts that you wind up quitting anyway. Bigger != better.
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#8 Guest_RunQ_*

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:16 AM

Gotcha :)

Well, thanks alot for taking the time to look for problems despite my kind of non-existant details provided. Now I feel a bit guilty that you spent hours looking for something that most likely is caused by some BWP quirkyness. Well it always was a likely candidate I guess..

If I ever encounter issues again, then I will have more to show for it. But let's hope that never happens :)



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