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Sir Anomen - Wisdom change?


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#1 Guest_Findus_*

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Posted 17 June 2011 - 01:47 AM

I tried to find and answer through the forum, with no avail, so forgive me if was asked already.

I was using the mod to bring Anomen to level 1 Fighter, so i can choose myself if dual class to Cleric later, is well known that is needed to boost his wisdom to 17 to do that, can't dual-class otherwise. Normally when he pass his quest and become Sir Anomen his wisdom score raise from 12 to 16, but in truth look like that he don't get a +4, rather he get a fixed value of 16.

Now my question is, if I set Anomen wisdom to 17 then Sir Anomen will have 16? Or peraphs the score will raise to 17+4 = 21? Either way is not really what i would like.

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Could be possibile to change him so he get at most +1 Wisdom? (and maybe +1 Constitution instead if he fail knighthood)

I know i can fix that with Shadowkeeper but i would rather not to edit savegame files if possible.
I also know that is not this mod job to change Anomen behaviour on his quest, so maybe i was wondering if there's already a mod who adress this issue.

Thanks for your patience.

#2 Miloch

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:03 AM

Now my question is, if I set Anomen wisdom to 17 then Sir Anomen will have 16? Or peraphs the score will raise to 17+4 = 21? Either way is not really what i would like.

Honestly, I don't know. Someone would either have to test it or look into the game's code to see what it does.

Could be possibile to change him so he get at most +1 Wisdom? (and maybe +1 Constitution instead if he fail knighthood)

It is somewhat beyond the scope of this mod, but it could make a good tweak. I'll look into it if I get some time.
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#3 berelinde

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 01:21 AM

IIRC, it's a spell that changes Anomen's wisdom. By either modifying the spell or by creating a new spell and modifying the script, it would be possible to change Anomen's wisdom by any amount you choose.
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#4 Miloch

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 10:19 AM

IIRC, it's a spell that changes Anomen's wisdom. By either modifying the spell or by creating a new spell and modifying the script, it would be possible to change Anomen's wisdom by any amount you choose.

Aye, looks like spin678.spl, which hard-sets his wisdom to 16. Easy enough to mod it to +1 for an optional component.

However, regarding (another subcomponent I suppose) if he fails - I can see maybe a constitution bonus, but should he not also get like a -1 wisdom penalty?
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#5 berelinde

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Posted 17 July 2011 - 04:03 PM

IIRC, it's a spell that changes Anomen's wisdom. By either modifying the spell or by creating a new spell and modifying the script, it would be possible to change Anomen's wisdom by any amount you choose.

Aye, looks like spin678.spl, which hard-sets his wisdom to 16. Easy enough to mod it to +1 for an optional component.

However, regarding (another subcomponent I suppose) if he fails - I can see maybe a constitution bonus, but should he not also get like a -1 wisdom penalty?

I could *maybe* see a constitution bonus. That would be iffy. I mean, I'd like to see the guy get *something* out of the deal, but how would making a bad decision make him hardier? No, I'm not shutting down discussion with this. I'd willingly entertain the possibility that it could happen. As for losing wisdom if he fails his test, he has shown that he values rashness and action over well-considered decisions. If you think that translates to a wisdom loss, I could see that. The thing is, at that point, he should technically lose the support of his patron entirely. Helm, the god of vigilance, should really not grant spells to CN priests.

That was always the problem I had with using wisdom as a prime requisite for priests. Consider Tempus. Loves me some battle, grr, grr, grr. I could see his priests using strength as a prime requisite rather than wisdom. Or Oghma/intelligence, Sune/charisma, etc.
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#6 Miloch

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 02:29 AM

I could *maybe* see a constitution bonus. That would be iffy. I mean, I'd like to see the guy get *something* out of the deal, but how would making a bad decision make him hardier? No, I'm not shutting down discussion with this. I'd willingly entertain the possibility that it could happen. As for losing wisdom if he fails his test, he has shown that he values rashness and action over well-considered decisions. If you think that translates to a wisdom loss, I could see that. The thing is, at that point, he should technically lose the support of his patron entirely. Helm, the god of vigilance, should really not grant spells to CN priests.

This came up here but I'll repeat and expand on it a bit. Helm's church accepts worshippers of LG, NG, CG, LN, N and CN alignments; however, the clergy can only be of LG, LN and N alignments (according to Faiths & Avatars). So I don't think a priest of Helm who went chaotic would necessarily lose all spells - he probably just couldn't advance in the hierarchy of the church (and there is quite a hierarchy, with titles ranging from "Novice" to "Senior Steeleye"). He might lose a few (not all) spells and granted powers such as Turn Undead. The most sensible game option would be to have him do a side quest to retrieve some powerful holy item for the church (a "glymtul" or "favored thing"), assuming he can come to his senses and apologise for spitting at the feet of the prelate etc. (not sure if he would do that though). The other thing is, I don't think he was cast out of the entire church, but out of one order (the Radiant Heart) and there are other orders in the church. Many others actually: the Noble Hand, Vigilant Guard, Companions of the One True Vision, Watchers Over the Fallen, Everwatch Knights, Vigilant Eyes of the God, etc. Most of those probably wouldn't accept a chaotic priest, but some might actually, if he was striving to return at least to neutral if not lawful neutral. As far as that, Faiths & Avatars has more to say:

Behavior violations of alignment codes are usually considered at least minor transgressions and are punished by the temporary loss of low-level spells. Minor transgressions can usually be corrected by an act of penance, such as fasting, meditation, the gift of a minor amount of money to the order, or an offering of another type preferred by the power.

Neglecting to perform the proper rituals or failing to strive toward fulfilling the deity's goals are examples of moderate transgressions. Such infractions are punished by the loss of granted powers and high-level spells and can only be rectified through major penance. In addition to a period of fasting or meditation, such priests must each give at least one moderately powerful magical item to their order (never to be used by them again), and/or undertake some dangerous quest on their deity's behalf.

Priests who commit heresy, a second moderate transgression, or who willfully disobey or ignore their deities have committed a major transgression. Such transgressions are always punished by an immediate and total loss of all priestly powers and spells. (pp. 19-20).

So it seems fairly clear he should lose the low-level spells temporarily. I suppose we could do that via applying a bunch of opcode #172s for say, all level 1-3 priest spells. The 'temporarily' is the thing though. Although we could apply it for a period of time, I would take it to mean not a fixed period, but until he gets back 'on the right path' - if he ever does. And all that might be a bit beyond a tweak in this mod, but if someone were willing to write the dialogue (probably just expanding anomenj.dlg and hprelate.dlg, maybe kayl2.dlg) I could do up the items, spells etc. Not sure how popular a "lose spells" tweak would be, but bundling it with a "new quest" might make it more attractive.

Anyway, for the passing/failing bonus/malus at least, I added several options - I suppose I should add at least another that just has him lose a point of wisdom if he fails. The con bonus, I suppose, one could justify inasmuch as his chaotic actions have involved a lot of fighting that increases his durability somehow, but not everyone might agree with that.
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