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Fiends question


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#1 Guest_g_*

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:32 PM

I'm a little unsure about compatiblity between SR, SCSII, and atweaks as far as fiends are concerned.

How exactly do your fiends work? Do i get to control them like an ally? If not, do they turn on me despite pro from evil? (as far as I remember, SCSII stopped you being completely safe using pro from evil, and am wondering if you do the same in the case i don't have full control)

I like the look of what atweaks does with fiends as far as scripts and so on, what do you offer that is different? Will anything break if I go with atweaks fiends, or even SCSII fiends?

I suppose you cannot answer the SCSII questions, but if someone else has experience please let me know what is best, in your opinion. I don't particularly feel like spamming the boards and creating this at the SCSII section just to get DavidW's attention! (nor at SHS...)

In particular, I'm thinking of installing SR, then SCSII, then atweaks with the second component: The second subcomponent also affects specific mod-added fiends (as of now, the ones added by SCSII), and all fiends receive PnP stats and aTweaks scripts.

I just don't want to break SR, and I know you have some different(ly named) spells, like the Death knight one, and am wondering if things like that will cause problems?

#2 Demivrgvs

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:48 AM

View Postg, on May 1 2011, 02:32 AM, said:

I'm a little unsure about compatiblity between SR, SCSII, and atweaks as far as fiends are concerned.
SR fiends are 100% compatible with SCS ones (they are pretty much identical). Actually I suggest to use them together because SCS handles in-game fiends too, while SR handles only summoned ones. Just install SCS fiend components after SR.

Otoh aTweak's fiends are very different from SR/SCS ones (the former are 2E-like, ours are 3E-like), but I think installing them over SR/SCS is fine since more recent versions. If installed after SCS aTweak's fiends should replace SCS ones.

If you want a general overview, I'd say aTweak's fiends have a few cool features within its scripts that I and David aren't using right now, but SR/SCS fiends are way more powerful. I suppose it's a matter of tastes deciding which ones you prefer.

View Postg, on May 1 2011, 02:32 AM, said:

How exactly do your fiends work? Do i get to control them like an ally? If not, do they turn on me despite pro from evil? (as far as I remember, SCSII stopped you being completely safe using pro from evil, and am wondering if you do the same in the case i don't have full control)
SR's fiends are in a beta test stage right now (feedback is very welcome), and work more or less as vanilla's Conjure Elemental spells. You have 85% chance to summon them as allies, and 15% chance that they turn against you. Even if they ally with you (becoming green circled, and granting you xp for their kills) they are never fully controllable, and they can still turn against you if harmed by any of your character's attack/spell.

Following SCS design decision, which I strongly support, SR fiends don't ignore characters protected by ProEvil (its +2 to AC and saves still work). Otoh aTweak gives a few tricks to high lvl demons to dispel ProEvil (e.g. some of them can Breach it with Limited Wish).

View Postg, on May 1 2011, 02:32 AM, said:

I like the look of what atweaks does with fiends as far as scripts and so on, what do you offer that is different? Will anything break if I go with atweaks fiends, or even SCSII fiends?
SR/SCS fiends have different stats and slighty different powers compared to aTweak's ones, simply because we are inspired by different PnP editions. We give you complete descriptions of their stats and powers (both online and within the readmes) thus you can relatively easily compare them yourself if you wish, but playing both of them and then decide may be better unless one of the main differences clearly guide your decision (e.g. the way we handle ProEvil is one of the biggest differences, and while I prefer how SR/SCS directly handle it, others can easily prefer how aTweak smartly work around it).

View Postg, on May 1 2011, 02:32 AM, said:

I suppose you cannot answer the SCSII questions, but if someone else has experience please let me know what is best, in your opinion. I don't particularly feel like spamming the boards and creating this at the SCSII section just to get DavidW's attention! (nor at SHS...)

In particular, I'm thinking of installing SR, then SCSII, then atweaks with the second component: The second subcomponent also affects specific mod-added fiends (as of now, the ones added by SCSII), and all fiends receive PnP stats and aTweaks scripts.
Mmm, if you want to go with aTweak's fiends and you want consistency I'd second your choice, let aTweak affects all fiends, especially because the differences between its fiends and SR/SCS ones are too noticeable to have them coexist imo.

View Postg, on May 1 2011, 02:32 AM, said:

I just don't want to break SR, and I know you have some different(ly named) spells, like the Death knight one, and am wondering if things like that will cause problems?
Ok, this is the only thing I'm not sure of. SCS takes SR into account and uses Death Knights, aTweaks probably don't, but it may just restore vanilla's fiends instead of them. Better ask to SHS though.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 02 May 2011 - 12:56 AM.


#3 Guest_guest_*

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 02:00 PM

Thanks, exactly the sort of information I was looking for, and hopefully will be useful to others in future too.

Keep up the great work. :cool:

#4 Tonton Fred

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:19 AM

View PostDemivrgvs, on May 2 2011, 03:48 PM, said:

if you want to go with aTweak's fiends and you want consistency I'd second your choice, let aTweak affects all fiends, especially because the differences between its fiends and SR/SCS ones are too noticeable to have them coexist imo.

I'm thinking of heading down the same path. Do you think aTweak's fiends would still remain effective in SR/SCS, compared for example to devas and planetars ? Their HD are much lower, but on the other hand, they have a lot of special abilities and can now gate in friends (I think aT's Pit Fiend can gate in a Greater Baatezu once per round at 100% chance of success :) ).

Cheers,
Fred

#5 Demivrgvs

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:49 AM

View PostTonton Fred, on Jul 31 2011, 03:22 PM, said:

Do you think aTweak's fiends would still remain effective in SR/SCS, compared for example to devas and planetars ? Their HD are much lower, but on the other hand, they have a lot of special abilities and can now gate in friends (I think aT's Pit Fiend can gate in a Greater Baatezu once per round at 100% chance of success :) ).
It's hard to tell as I didn't knew their "summon allies" behaviour is so outstanding. Without their allies I think aTweak's fiends are quite a lot weaker than SR/SCS ones, even with those cool abilities. SR/SCS ones don't have some of those cool looking tricks but their more straightforward abilities/powers probably are equally effective, and in terms of raw power (HDs, hit points, stats, etc.) there's really no match. SR's Planetars are more or less powerful as Pit Fiends, but comparing them is really difficult as the formers have much more potential due to their spells, while the latters are more brutals when it comes to brawling or causing mass destruction.

If you end up trying aTweak's ones I'd actually be quite interested in getting some feedback on them from players who have faced SR/SCS ones and can compare them. :D

Edited by Demivrgvs, 31 July 2011 - 06:51 AM.


#6 aVENGER_(RR)

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 09:47 AM

View PostDemivrgvs, on Jul 31 2011, 04:49 PM, said:

It's hard to tell as I didn't knew their "summon allies" behaviour is so outstanding.

With the recent updates to the Fiendish Gating component, fiends give much higher priority to summoning allies and can do that a lot quicker than before.

Quote

...in terms of raw power (HDs, hit points, stats, etc.) there's really no match.

Yup, if you look at the hit dice and damage dealt, aTweaks' fiends are less powerful than their SCS/SR counterparts since aTweaks uses 2E AD&D as a base while SR and SCS use D&D 3.5. However, as you've already noted, aTweaks' fiends they have several PnP abilities which can help them to offset this. For example, with aTweaks, a Nabassu can jump to the Ethereal Plane and completely regenerate 2x/day while a Pit Fiend can use its Wish ability to fully heal itself or cast Improved Haste on all nearby allies.

Quote

If you end up trying aTweak's ones I'd actually be quite interested in getting some feedback on them from players who have faced SR/SCS ones and can compare them. :)

Me too. :D
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