leania, on Mar 27 2011, 12:01 AM, said:
I just mentioned about True Thief because I felt that the other theives, such as Assassin, Bounty Hunter, Swashbuckler, and multi/dual classes, can be balanced and characterized relatively through RR and Refinements.
In fact KR's Assassin, BH and Swashy will be very very similar to RR's ones, though we may include Ardanis huge work on traps if he wish so (or a less radical revision I had in mind). I plan to make HLA tables more "unique" for each kit than Refinements ones, but yes, that mod is a very good starting point in terms of concept.
In my opinion dual classes with thief is not so overpowered because they generally become weak when they change their class. Furthermore, the dual classes get the number of HLA less than multi/single classes. Though it may not big disadvantages when playing with only one character It's enough penalties in case of the general playing of BG series with 5~6 fellows.
I guess by "weak when they change class" you mean the temporary loss of the first class before regaining it, but that doesn't affect the end result of the class which is absurdly more powerful than the single class. That being said, I'm not saying the end result of dual classing is always so overpowered to be considered broken (a fighter-thief isn't as overpowered as a kensage), but that the system per se is "broken", because a dualled character is way more powerful and effective than the single class character (e.g. a Berserker-thief is absurdly better than a plain thief).
I don't know what you mean by "dual classes get the number of HLA less than multi/single classes", they actually get more HLAs than multi classed characters afaik and as much as single class characters (perhaps 1 HLA less, but having 64k xp less doesn't make any difference at all in ToB). Unless you're speaking of a character that duals extremely late (e.g. a kensage with 13 fighter lvls), or dualling within BG1, dualling within BG2 is almost free. Dualling a 7th lvl fighter to thief means getting +1/2 apr, more hit points, and the ability to get grandmastery (which is HUGE bonus), at the miserable cost of 64k xp points, which you can get in half an hour within BG2, and later on means absolutely nothing (when there are 250k between each lvl up).
"When True thief tries to backstab a victim, the target may be frightened/confused/disarmed because of the sudden assault. These additional effects vary according to True Thief's level. Only True Thief gets this passive ability since the thief is perfactly proficient as thief."
I'd love to be able to add different features to thief's backstab but it's not doable.
Ardanis, on Mar 27 2011, 12:51 AM, said:
In theory, letting thieves read scrolls as per PnP (I think they can read scrolls with a % failure rate at 10th lvl - though I'd replace the failure with a speed penalty, else I'd never use this feature in my life) could greatly enhance the appeal of thieves, but this requires a huge amount of work, and in the end we would just move a thief HLA to mid lvl thieves. IR already introduces a tweak to let thieves with high INT use wands, we could restrict it to true class thieves (and swashbucklers?), creating an additional disadvantage for the other kits.
I don't think casting speed penalty is doable. It doesn't affect the 146th opcode.
EDIT The same actually goes for miscast chance as well.
We might be able to make scrolls cast a custom version of each spell via EFF file if used by a thief (excluding multi dual thief/mage), but that would be indeed a monstrous amount of work if doable.
I would suggest simply to add the INT requirement of spell level +8 to scrolls. And INT-boosting items will finally find their use.
Like we did for Wands?
I'm afraid having low lvl thieves able to use scrolls as much as they want may be a tad too much, both conceptually and in terms of balance. Not to mention it would be an incredible boost for multi and dual fighter-thieves too, which is something we may not want to get (personally I don't). Am I wrong?
This is one of those cases where it would be better to have HLA tables open up at a lower lvl (e.g. 10th lvl) to start customizing classes and kits early on (e.g. true thief table would have Use Scroll, fighter-thief table would have another HLA). I know we can reach almost the same goal by making scrolls unusable by fighter-thief and cleric-thief, but it's much less "explainable" if it's an ability every thief gets at 1st lvl instead of a unique feat gained by experienced thief who focused on a single class career.
On a side note, another HLA that would probably greatly enhance the appeal of thieves if acquired at mid lvls would be Alchemy. Meh, I'm starting to think the whole "have HLA tables start at 10th lvl" would be really cool.
Speaking of HLAs, can someone quickly explain me how Refinements' Use Scroll HLA works? I mean how it's coded, because I've tried to look into it and it's kinda complicated to say the least (and kinda hacky too).
Use Any Item
And keeping UAI for pure thieves is... fine? If somebody wants kensai/thief to wear a plate armor, that's their business imo.
Kalindor, on Mar 27 2011, 06:13 AM, said:
Personally I think UAI is a good way to make Bards more appealing if it is restricted to their use. It is very thematically appropriate for the bard, also.
I'm with Kalindor on this, I like how Refinements made this HLA an exclusive advantage of bards.
Edited by Demivrgvs, 27 March 2011 - 08:25 AM.