13 replies to this topic

[-JR-]

To the writers: please take this idea and implement it in Baldur's Gate I, Tales of the Sword Coast, Icewind Dale, Heart of Winter, and Icewind Dale II. Maybe Planescape: Torment too; I haven't been able to get ahold of a copy of that yet so I don't know how applicable it would be.

I've read through the very valid arguments that more people play Shadows of Amn than other games, and that the Bhaalspawn might be less interested in encounters in the first game. But let's face it: this game is getting crowded with lonely NPCs to the point where people have complained about it. It's making my playthroughs of the other games seem disproportionately empty, and this one disproportionately packed. Also, my characters in the other games are a lot more likely to go further than the "not interested" line than my traditional Baldur's Gate PC.

[Ipsy]

BGT/Tutu is practically asking for it. I mean, "Neville the Fair"?

Vanilla BG1 might be harder to implement it in though.

PS:T...I don't think so. It doesn't really fit the feel of the game.

[Kulyok]

PS:T and IWD aren't that popular: your average BG2 NPC mod gets way more downloads than a PS:T or IWD mod. Besides, PS:T is so much like a novel that it feels wrong to insert something.

With BG1, to me it doesn't feel right for the PC who's straight out of a cloister - and more importantly, there are no pretty and interesting characters around. Right, we could imagine a tryst with officer Vai or banging Lothander(who is shaking with fear, too) - but come on, would that be pretty?


BG2 may feel packed, but let's face it: there are tons of good quest mods for BG2, dozens of talking NPCs, and huge add-ons besides. Tutu/BGT modlist is small in comparison. So I think it all makes sense.

[-JR-]

Like I said, I've heard those arguments before; I just disagree, so this is more of a suggestion for the writers than the moderators.

I think that the concept of the naive, traumatized Bhaalspawn, while admittedly being applicable to my usual PC, is only one side of the numerous character possibilities RPGs like this pride themselves on offering. And heck, in my mind, immaturity is a considerable part of one night stands, pursuits of unlikely love, and desperate, shallow, or short relationships. Since when did the average youngster view relationships conservatively?

I assumed as much about Planescape: Torment, but thought I'd throw it out there. The Icewind Dales, however, is where I really think it would help.

Reason 1: Blander Games. From a wider perspective, the game will benefit more from additions than the already jam-packed Shadows of Amn. From a personal perspective, your work will stand out more on the simpler backdrop.

Reason 2: Multiple Characters. Your main character isn't interested? What about the guy or gal from party slot number two or three? It gives more of an opportunity for roleplayers like me to develop the personalities and behavioral patterns of the different characters in the group. It makes more players able to access your content than you would in the justifiably gender/race/alignment restricted construction that is Baldur's Gate.

Reason 3: Less Shifting Environments. The constant returns to Kuldahar in Icewind Dale I and Targos in Icewind Dale II would lend themselves to a more realistic application of content mining from a roleplay perspective. When I'm running a particularly sleazy or emotionally needy character through Baldur's Gate, it's hard not to just clear this stuff out of an area and move on like I do with the local quests, only to have no more attention from that area. Though this could and has been implemented to some extent with the chapter/quest progression of the current encounters, I believe the forcible exit and reentry of the aforementioned towns would lend to a cleaner transition and greater clarity on the timeline. For example, it could start out with little to nothing. Maybe a few desperate people trying to live it up in the streets of doomed Targos, and then shift to the deeper or pickier locals seeking contact and possibly relationships with their saviors as the timeline progresses. I've always felt out-of-touch with the populations of these nearly unmodded games. This would also give more of an opportunity for more intricate, longer-term events like Ribald's and Laran's multiple encounters to develop.

Edit: Also, many of the most interesting and well-constructed encounters in this mod are with newly introduced or formerly personality-less NPCs, which I think half solves the problem for those who share your opinion that the characters in the other games are less interesting.

Edited by -JR-, 10 August 2010 - 10:01 PM.

[Grim Squeaker]

The fact of the matter is someone needs to build a new area for Athkatla or outside it so we can move people around. Unfortunately it's a ludicrous task so it seems unlikely it'll happen.

[Kulyok]

@JR: To me it seems like a romantic encounter in BG/IWD would indeed stand out - in a bad way. BG and IWD are more epic, more "bright" in comparison to BG2 and Dragon Age - so I believe something like RE would seem really, really out of the way here. But by all means, I agree to disagree.


Heh, by the way, it's funny that Athkatla doesn't have brothels per se. Brynnlaw does, but it looks more like a filthy dungeon than a proper establishment. Lust chambers in the Underdark look good, though.

A new area for Athkatla... mmm!

@Grim: This might be a little off-topic, but I have Romantic Encounters v5 on my hands, with full Russian translation by Aerie.ru folks for Russian players. I posted the links to theacefes, but she might be a little busy. If you're around, could I PM the links to you for update v5?

[-JR-]

I've always found Baldur's Gate to be more epic. I mean, you have the choice to become a god in the end, instead of just killing a bunch of small baddies then a big one. But I see your point about the darker feel to Shadows of Amn.

Hm, come to think of it, there already is an encounter in Heart of Winter with Ambere Dunn, so in terms of the vanilla game, Icewind Dale is closer to this project than the unmodded Baldur's Gate was. Unless you count the tiny Cominda/Jenthan/dwarf thing, in which case they're even.

Grim, that would be amazing, albeit unlikely. But on the other hand, it seems to me all the small stuff's been/is being done. So unless we're going to give up expansion of the game after twelve years of work, big stuff is going to need to be done. Let's hope we get some hot-headed, engine-savvy person in here who's willing to throw away his or her life for us, aye?

[Aeryn]

I have to wonder...if it's so needed, so important for other games to have their own versions of RE, why not just develop it yourself? Believe me, I very much understand why players want others to make the mods instead of doing it themselves, but there's no valid reason a player can't just pick up an idea themselves, learn to do what other modders do and run with it. I'm sure there are a number of talented folks who would like to see these games spiced up a bit and would be willing to put their efforts into such things, but if no one takes ownership of it, it will never happen.

Personally, I don't even own most of those games anymore, if I ever did, so I can't speak to the need of RE versions for them. I probably lean toward a 'they are less popular, and the work going into any mods is less appreciated' argument more than anything else.

[-JR-]

Personally, I can't quite understand the average modder's fixation on popularity. When we're dealing with minor changes to decade-old video games, I would think its importance would be minimal.

None of our modding work is "so needed, so important," but it's fun and it adds to the gaming experience. So I thought I'd throw an ounce of support behind a cool-sounding idea I'd seen quashed in the past. I think you may have gotten the wrong impression; I'm not particularly passionate about this idea, I was just offering my counterpoints to the arguments put against my suggestion.

[Ipsy]

I think it's not so much a "fixation on popularity," as you put it. Mods take a considerable amount of work, and while some people mod for their own enjoyment, I'd imagine that it's nice to know that people are experiencing that hard work

If you're interested in seeing this through as a project, maybe see if a) people would play it and b) people would be interested in submitting content for it.

[Aeryn]

Ipsy, on Aug 11 2010, 03:26 PM, said:

I think it's not so much a "fixation on popularity," as you put it. Mods take a considerable amount of work, and while some people mod for their own enjoyment, I'd imagine that it's nice to know that people are experiencing that hard work

Exactly. Someone who is truly inspired by an idea will likely forge ahead with their vision, regardless of the people who might or might not be interested in experiencing their work, but as I said, it's something I am not inspired by. That was not said to discourage the idea. It's just how I feel.

I must have misinterpreted the tone of the original post, and the subsequent arguments, because it did indeed seem to me like you were passionate about the idea. There are a number of players who say 'this and this mod should be made,' then sit back and wait sometimes years hoping it comes about. All I was trying to say was make it happen if it's something you care about.

[berelinde]

Modding is a lot of work. Doing so in the hopes that a high download count will provide a sense of satisfaction... dunno.

If you're going to write a mod, do it because you enjoy the process of creation and because you take pleasure in the act of modding. If you're reluctant to do it because you think no one will appreciate it, you worry too much. If the mod was fun to make, you stll come out ahead. If you're looking for validation in the form of download counts...

[Kulyok]

I'd start with Sarevok, myself. )) Pity that Domi never finished her Midnight Visitor mod. Then again, we got a cool Sarevok romance already. I'd like to see what it'd be like in BG1, though - when PC still doesn't know they're related, but MAY know he's Gorion's murderer.