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Flirting with Sand


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#1 berelinde

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 06:24 AM

I haven't gotten as much done as I would have liked, but that's mostly because Gavin's been giving me so much grief... well, that, and I've been ill, so I've been sleeping a lot.

The "flatter Sand" options are done, though, and they took a hell of a lot longer than I thought they would, and I've got outlines in place for the rest of the flirts.

So, with the first release of Sand's flirts pretty much carved in stone at this point, I thought it was about time to reveal what will and won't be included.

In Act 1, you can stop by his shop and ask him a few questions, or share a bottle of wine that you brought, or treat him to a game of chess... and that's about it. I didn't want to get too carried away with the Act 1 flirts because that leaves more for a time when he's actually in the party.

From Act 2 onward, you get the full flirts. You can ask him a range of questions about his life, both personal and professional, his beliefs and preferences, and yes, you can ask him some elfy things. Don't get too excited. You tease and tempt him with a variety of physical flirts both tame and otherwise. In Act 3, some more intimate and/or daring flirts get added to the range, and he generally reacts more favorably to both verbal and physical flirts. Many of the flirts depend on how much he likes you or how seductive you have been toward him, so he might start out more reserved and then relax once he grows more comfortable around you. So now you will finally be able to walk up to Sand and give him a sloppy wet kiss, if that's your fancy.

So, now that we've talked about what the flirt pack will include, we should talk about what it won't include. Domi is developing the Neeshka romance, and needs free access to all game files, so the only file affected by the flirt pack will be gl_sand.dlg. This means that unlike Casavir, you won't be able to talk to him about specific game events, at least not right now. If there are global variables associated with it, like the Act number or the trial outcome, you can talk to him about that, since I won't need to set any variables in other game files, but things like asking him about the succubus or about the Temple of Seasons can't happen until the Neeshka romance is done. I'll save that for the full Sand romance. I also can't add things to other characters' dialogue files, so a potential banter with Duncan is going to have to wait, too. And lastly, there isn't going to be a Walls scene or Trial expansion for Sand this time out. Each of those took a week of heavy work, and I just don't have that time available right now. We'll save that for the full romance, too. Please don't tell me how disappointed you are that these things won't be included. I already know, and reminding me will just make me wish I'd waited until I could do the whole thing at once rather than release a flirt pack early. We are still operating on the assumption that it's better to have something than nothing, right?

As with the other romances, original game influence is a finely balanced thing, and we're not touching it. What you do and say in romance dialogues has no bearing on vanilla game behavior and vice versa. There is a tracking system in place, but it's completely independant of influence. So you still have to be nice to Sand if you want him to stay with you at the end.
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#2 Guest_Deedlit_*

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:53 PM

Wonderful news Berelinde!

Honestly I don't see how someone can be disappointed,if people followed the other topic about the Sand flirt pack,they should already know that many things would be put on hold until the full-romance;from what you hint about,it looks like the flirtpack will be amazing and really interesting,expecially in variety,and I just can't wait to have a go at it : P

I just wanna thank you for getting this done despite your tight schedule,and thank you for not dropping this project as well :)
Hopefully,in the future,you'll even work on it again for the full romance pack...but for now,huge thanks for the flirt pack! :)

I'll eagerly wait for the flirt pack release then (unless it's already dowloadable? I'm expecially dim-witted when it comes to find downloads *laughs*),and again,thanks,this was an awesome bday gift (well yes,yesterday was my bday,I'm even older,but none the wiser,duh! :laugh: ).


Regards!

#3 Deedlit

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:17 AM

P.S. Just to remain on the dim-witted side: will flirting with Sand break the romance with Casavir (speaking of the romance pack,not the vanilla game one,which I assume is still independent?) ?

And weee,I finally managed to register,no more eyesore codes! :)


Regards!

#4 berelinde

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 02:19 AM

Yes, all the romances operate semi-independently of the vanilla game "romances." I say "semi-independently" because the Romance Pack does alter the Walls scene and the courtroom scene, though neither will be affected with Sand in the party this time out. Also, your influence does matter *slightly* in the romance. Neither Casavir nor Sand will reveal sensitive information about their past early. You know the stuff: Casavir talks about his issues with Neverwinter, Sand talks about his history with Luskan.

Version 4 isn't out yet, though. I'm still writing. :) I've got an ETA of Monday, though.

The good news is that during the time that the Neeshka romance is in coding, I'll be playing through NWN2 again and writing the talks, so if all goes well, I'll be able to begin coding soon after Neeshka is out.
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#5 Deedlit

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:01 AM

That was exactly what I wanted to know,thank you kindly :)

As a matter of fact,I do love how influence,however separate, "affects" romance pack as well,it seems much more coherent that way :( (my humble opinion,of course,but just appreciating :) )

As for the rest.....just drooling in wait :laugh:


Thank you again for your hard work!

#6 DeathAngel

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:31 PM

Good to know there is progress. I'll be awaiting the release of both the flirt pack and full romance patiently yet eagerly. :)

Edited by DeathAngel, 29 April 2010 - 07:31 PM.

"Dying's easy Living's hard"

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Love this boon has sent-
If I die and wither
I shall die content" -John Keats


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You should read my stuff on fanfiction.net because it's totally awesome (yes, yes this will make them respect me)

#7 berelinde

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 08:28 PM

I'm coding up the last of the flirt pack at this very moment. Testing will begin Saturday unless I've got volunteers who want to test sooner. I can have it uploaded for testing tomorrow, so anyone who's interested should volunteer. Mostly, I'm looking for people who are good at proofreading.
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#8 Deedlit

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:05 AM

I would be glad to volunteer,but unfortunately I'm not a native speaker :)

Still,feel free to make use of me,if you think I can be useful in any way :)

Speaking of testing,what would be a good class to choose from,to get most of the optional flirts with Sand?

Thank you again for the hard work :laugh:

#9 berelinde

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:05 AM

Any class or race is fine. The answer to class-specific questions might be different for different races, but you won't miss flirts.

I'll PM you the download link once I've got it uploaded.
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#10 Deedlit

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 01:32 PM

Currently playing an aasimar bard (for good old time sake :) ),in order to be knowleadgeable,charming,and knowing a bit of spellcraft,maybe it will help in bantering with our fav mage :laugh:

I'm sorry I'm going slow,but it has been an horrible weekend and I didn't have as much free time as I've hoped...my deepest apologies,I plan to get to the first flirting point at least by the end of sunday!

#11 berelinde

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 01:49 PM

That's OK, I haven't done much testing, either. I'm kind of a bit burned out by the mad rush to wrap up all the projects that have been hanging over my head for the last few months/years. I've got a save right before you reach Neverwinter, though, so at least I can skip the tedium of the Fort Locke quests. I've got a female human cleric (because I'm not crazy about taking Elanee along).

You should make a save before you reach Neverwinter, too! That way, when the romance is finally done, you'll be able to get any Duncan/Sand banters that I might happen to add. Once an area loads for the first time, all dialogues that aren't global dialogues, i.e. your companion dialogues, are stored in the saved game, so you won't see any new additions. So save before you enter Neverwinter for the first time.
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#12 Deedlit

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 01:17 PM

That shouldn't be a problem,I'm usually a save freak - I end up with tons of saves everywhere,just because sometimes you wanna reread this,relisten that... but thanks for explaining that! :)

I am eager to get to neverwinter,although I'm a slow player,and just managed to arrive in fort locke *gnaws hands*;honestly I'm not fond (euphemism...) of Elanee either...she'll prolly be in my party only in the beginning,if anything just to provide a sense of amusement when entering the flagon - I mean my actual party it's like a bad pun "So,an elf,a dwarf,a tiefling and an aasimar walk into a tavern..." :)

Can't wait to reach the saucy part.... will keep you informed!

And of course,thank you for your hard work,do get some rest now! :laugh:

#13 Deedlit

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:09 PM

Finally managed to get to neverwinter and meet our favourite elf! ;)

Of course,after taking care of my dear uncle,I went straight to visit Sand's shop (by the way,I noticed that,in all my playthroughs,I never really checked the actual sign...do I feel bad about this?Why yes,yes I do,I feel a sloppy gamer now! :) ) ,and tried to explore all the available flirts a little;I'll try not to go into much detail in order not to spoil everything to anyone,but they do look great,many were a lot surprising,and I had a serious crack at some of the lines (expecially the answer to "I am open to suggestions" :( ),not to mention it brang a tear to the eye to see him calling me "girl" as his usual (well,since I'm playing a female)...now I can't wait to see the rest,but for now I'll have some questing to do first,I guess :)

I've even written down a sort of list with (possible) bugs and mispellings (well,what I THINK are bugs and mispelling,more correctly,so maybe they aren't at all :( ),which I'll pm you;but before that,I want to know if you want just the list with (allegedly) broken stuff/mispellings,or are you accepting suggestions as well?Because I would reeeeaaaallly rather avoid sounding ungrateful or annoy you with them!

Meanwhile,here's a couple of questions:

-Is there a sort of "hidden influence system" like what seemed the case with Casavir,when it comes to the flirts,or they just go with the vanilla game influence and/or storyline advancement?If there's such a system,will choosing too many sour comments then "break" the flirtations?

-Is the chess game result stat based (like an intelligence check maybe?),or is Sand bound to win everytime?Not that I mind,but it got me to wonder if there's the possibility to see him shocked to loose or not :(

-I appreciated Sand calling me and Neeshka "the opposites",but does that mean that he recognizes me as an aasimar then,or was it casual?If it was not,awesome work there Berelinde! (well,awesome work all around,but I'd expecially like that ;) )


I'll wait for whenever you have time to answer me before sending you the pm...again,awesome job so far,thanks a lot for this flirtpack! :laugh:

#14 berelinde

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:13 PM

I've even written down a sort of list with (possible) bugs and mispellings (well,what I THINK are bugs and mispelling,more correctly,so maybe they aren't at all :) ),which I'll pm you;but before that,I want to know if you want just the list with (allegedly) broken stuff/mispellings,or are you accepting suggestions as well?Because I would reeeeaaaallly rather avoid sounding ungrateful or annoy you with them!

I'll take any and all suggestions into consideration. I might not implement all of them, but I really would like this to be as satisfying as possible for the player, so if you have suggestions, pass 'em along.

As far as broken stuff, I've found a few things myself. Item checks don't work in dialogue, which is unfortunate, but I recall that Sand carries wine in his inventory as a crafting component, so I'll change that flirt around to something like "Let's open up a bottle of wine and share it here" instead. That way, if the PC has one, cool, and if not, well, Sand's buying. If you find any more broken stuff, by all means, let me know, but you do have to remember that NWN2 engine has limitations.

Here are a few:
  • Item checks don't work, so he can't react to specific items
  • NWN2 is notorious for dropping scripts, so you may find that a conversation ends abruptly or never starts at all. Report it. If I've forgotten a link, I can fix it, but if it's a case of the engine dropping the script, I'll be able to tell you that. This includes random responses as well as dialogues that start off existing dialogues.
  • Variables that are set in one dialogue cannot be called during the same dialogue, so if you told Sand something that you expect him to remember, he won't remember it until later. This also means that I can't track dialogue responses within the same dialogue.

As for misspellings and/or typographical errors, check out my custom title. There are bound to be some.

-Is there a sort of "hidden influence system" like what seemed the case with Casavir,when it comes to the flirts,or they just go with the vanilla game influence and/or storyline advancement?If there's such a system,will choosing too many sour comments then "break" the flirtations?

There is a hidden influence system. I'm tracking two varialbes, b#sand_like and b#seduce_sand. As b#sand_like increases, his response to flirtation becomes more favorable. As b#seduce_sand increases, he'll realize that you're attracted to him. In Act 2 and Act 3, if b#seduce_sand is high but b#sand_like is low, he will be vaguely annoyed by your attempts to seduce him, but it won't end the romance or anything. If b#seduce_sand is high AND b#sand_like is high, he considers your flirtation with him to be a mutually enjoyable game and will generally play along enthusiastically, though he might occasionally sound like he's protesting.

-Is the chess game result stat based (like an intelligence check maybe?),or is Sand bound to win everytime?Not that I mind,but it got me to wonder if there's the possibility to see him shocked to loose or not :laugh:

The chess game is stat based. I don't remember exactly, but I seem to recall that it takes both intelligence and wisdom into consideration. With his exceptionally high intelligence, it will be very difficult for you to beat him at chess, but it is possible if your stats are high enough.

-I appreciated Sand calling me and Neeshka "the opposites",but does that mean that he recognizes me as an aasimar then,or was it casual?If it was not,awesome work there Berelinde! (well,awesome work all around,but I'd expecially like that :) )

He recognizes you as an aasimar. He is an intelligent, highly perceptive man, so he would know one if he saw one. Where it is appropriate, he will recognize the gender, race and class of your PC. Later on, if you ask him what it is like to cast a spell, for example, he will also realize that you are a bard and will answer accordingly, but if you pick up any wizard levels, he'll recognize that before he recognizes the bard levels. And if you ask him about elfy things, he will respond differently if you are an elf yourself. In Act 2, there are places where he will also respond to flirts differently based on your alignment, stats and/or skills, too. In all cases, there are flirts that work differently for male vs. female characters. Besides the anatomical differences, I needed to make sure that the PC had a chance to hint at sexual orientation. Don't worry, you didn't kill the romance if you said that you wanted him to make a potion for Neesha! It's more that males can tell him not to get pushy.

Send the PM whenever you get the chance. I can upload a new version any time, really.
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#15 Deedlit

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:31 PM

PM sent,hopefully it won't annoy you too much :)


There is a hidden influence system. I'm tracking two varialbes, b#sand_like and b#seduce_sand. As b#sand_like increases, his response to flirtation becomes more favorable. As b#seduce_sand increases, he'll realize that you're attracted to him. In Act 2 and Act 3, if b#seduce_sand is high but b#sand_like is low, he will be vaguely annoyed by your attempts to seduce him, but it won't end the romance or anything. If b#seduce_sand is high AND b#sand_like is high, he considers your flirtation with him to be a mutually enjoyable game and will generally play along enthusiastically, though he might occasionally sound like he's protesting.


I'm glad I saved right before beginning to flirt with him,so I could try everything out without fear of breaking anything;I guess I will reload from there and try to choose the "correct" answers now....what I wonder is,do those variables change everytime you go through a dialogue tree,or just the first time?Do repeating a "correct" answer build up points with him,or rather it's a one time process?I just want to make sure that obsessive clicking won't get my bard in trouble :laugh:


The chess game is stat based. I don't remember exactly, but I seem to recall that it takes both intelligence and wisdom into consideration. With his exceptionally high intelligence, it will be very difficult for you to beat him at chess, but it is possible if your stats are high enough.


This would explain a lot :(
I wrote something about this in my pm as well then :(

He recognizes you as an aasimar. He is an intelligent, highly perceptive man, so he would know one if he saw one. Where it is appropriate, he will recognize the gender, race and class of your PC. Later on, if you ask him what it is like to cast a spell, for example, he will also realize that you are a bard and will answer accordingly, but if you pick up any wizard levels, he'll recognize that before he recognizes the bard levels. And if you ask him about elfy things, he will respond differently if you are an elf yourself. In Act 2, there are places where he will also respond to flirts differently based on your alignment, stats and/or skills, too. In all cases, there are flirts that work differently for male vs. female characters. Besides the anatomical differences, I needed to make sure that the PC had a chance to hint at sexual orientation. Don't worry, you didn't kill the romance if you said that you wanted him to make a potion for Neesha! It's more that males can tell him not to get pushy.



Argh,now this is making me burn with curiosity and I'm tempted to reroll an elf just to see the different answers!Like in Dark Waters 2,when I discovered that the love confession,if your PC was an elf,was much sweeter than the one between another race and the male romance interest (elf)...I hope it doesn't change things so dramatically :)
Aside from my inner fan girl going in obsession mode now,you really did an amazing job with race/gender checks,I can't wait to go further in the story now...let's hope Sand will warm up to my chaotic good bard :(



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