31 replies to this topic

[yarpen]

Quote

Hello my friend,
I want to ask you about quite important thing. I've always been a great fan of your (especially with CamDawg and Andyr) team and it's sad for me to see how some mods and your old ideas from LoI are stagnating. Especially Divine Remix, which has great value for me - it was my first translated into polish mod, after that I've get something like 50th others but still DR has a special place in my installations and modlists

Not a long time ago I've started to work on my own, alternative revision of Cleric class which was created in discussion about Demivqvrs's Kit Revision mod. So, my vision is to replace vanilla faith-connected kits with kits resembling alternative priest classes (Crusader and Mystic) and third kit called Speciality Priest. I've wanted to introduce into the game Holy Symbols which besides possibility of casting spells and turning undead grant you some additional abilities - especially if you're Speciality Priest (DR kits are based on Speciality Priests - so these are resembling them a lot).

But now I've also came up with thought that there's lack of most important part of PnP clergy system - spheres. These were major problem of Divine Remixes because some kits were lacking of spells (goddamn Watcher of Helm who has 2 spells on some level -.-) but I think that I've overcome this one. Currently I feel quite proficient in pixel art and spellmaking, also I've found a lot of good sources about spells. Sphere system is quite important for me, because I don't have any idea about another disadvantage of Crusader than restricting Turn Undead (restricting casting 6th and 7th level from him isn't active at early levels and too restricting at later parts of game).

I wanted to ask you about two things. One is permission to mess with cleric's spellcasting system in similiar manner as Divine Remix. I'm not hiding fact, that my work is mainly inspired by Divine Remixes and some of previews of Lands of intrigue. Still, I'd love to be capable to do this mod as a sort of legacy of your awesome work. It'd be a honor, sir!

Second thing is - tech specs of Divine Remix. Am I right about that how it works? Replacing all of the SPPR... .spl named files with blank ones so game doesn't put anything without our permission and then, adding spells via .spl file? If yes, that's quite cool. It fits my system of Holy Symbols perfectly with little 'glitch' of the fact, that on 1st level of experience you're going to see your repertoire of 7th level spells (I'm too lazy to do .spl files for adding ALL_SPELLS from ALL_SPHERES of ALL_LEVEL separetly. -.-

Also, there's minor question. Where did Spiritual Weapons are coming from? In my plans I've wanted to add them to Crusader's because they lack of any once-a-day ability and without possibility of making them capable of using any weapon (without dualclass trick) it's kind a solution.

I know that you're not involved into scene anymore but I hope that you'll find time for responding. And I hope that I've didn't offended you in any manner.

Thanks,
- Dawid "Yarpen" Gnilka

[Mike1072]

yarpen, on Jan 28 2010, 04:32 PM, said:

Second thing is - tech specs of Divine Remix. Am I right about that how it works? Replacing all of the SPPR... .spl named files with blank ones so game doesn't put anything without our permission and then, adding spells via .spl file? If yes, that's quite cool. It fits my system of Holy Symbols perfectly with little 'glitch' of the fact, that on 1st level of experience you're going to see your repertoire of 7th level spells (I'm too lazy to do .spl files for adding ALL_SPELLS from ALL_SPHERES of ALL_LEVEL separetly. -.-

Cam explains this here:

CamDawg, on Sep 13 2006, 04:55 PM, said:

First, an overview of how DR creates the sphere system. As we found through several frustrating releases, removing spells from divine casters is unreliable at best. The engine automatically puts spells of the name sppr[1-7][0-9][0-9] into divine spellbooks if the spell is of the correct type, defined by the two bytes at 0x20 in the spell files. DR removes this automatic granting of spells by changing the type of all spells of the name sppr[1-7][0-9][0-9] to invalid for all divine casters. The spells are added manually via the kit's ability tables, aka the CLAB 2da files. Adding to the spellbook through script or spells resulted in the cleric receiving experience points for 'learning' the spell.

So, all of the CLAB files for DR are stuffed with entries like GA_SPPR101 and whatnot.

[yarpen]

Hmmm, that's why they're using all of these macros. That's quite sad - with our modern modding there is no possibility of doing it via spl? Let's say if I want to implement sphere system it's a must-have because I'll give spells to clerics via Holy Symbol so... -.-
If there's lack of any possibility like this, I'll just do it without sphere system. After all implementing it needs a lot of bam and spell work.

As a bonus, first version of Reincarnation spell BAM. It's druidic version of Ressurection but with penalty. There's ~90% chance that ressurected character will come back changed into animal (wolf, bear, moose, dog, rat) for whole day.



Colours and positioning are at early stage but I'm going to fix it. [Do you think it also needs the cross?]

Edited by yarpen, 28 January 2010 - 08:42 PM.

[Mike1072]

yarpen, on Jan 28 2010, 08:40 PM, said:

Hmmm, that's why they're using all of these macros. That's quite sad - with our modern modding there is no possibility of doing it via spl? Let's say if I want to implement sphere system it's a must-have because I'll give spells to clerics via Holy Symbol so... -.-

You can always just add each specialty priest as a separate kit. If you still want to have the choice of deity in-game, they can be unselectable at character generation, and then when you choose your deity/Holy Symbol, you can swap the kit to one with the appropriate sphere selection.

[yarpen]

Items allowed me to use -1 spells per level without any problems (for example DR and Demi adds bonus spell to kitless cleric, I don't want to - that's why items are so cool) and I'm afraid that with my current idea on how-to make a possibility of using any weapon as a Crusader, I'll have to use 3 item restriction lists for 2 kits.

Of course I can let Crusader stay as he is but method was IMO quite cool and I've always wanted to implement it. So...

Goal: create kit who can use items restricted to trueclass & unexpected but very fine outcome remove weapons restriction from multi-clerics.
1st step: allow to trueclass cleric using any weapon
2nd step: create item restriction list (IRL in short form) which prevents using weapons other than allowed to cleric
3rd step: create kit with exactly Cleric description and grant to him previoursly done IRL.
4th step: append 'true' trueclass cleric's CLAB and add effect or summon invisible creature to launch a script which turns him into previoursly done Kit.
5th step: create Crusader kit and give him trueclass's IRL (so: NONE) so he can use any weapon.
6th step: give to the rest of kits appropriate IRL's.

Yes, I know that my mod is going to be completely incompatible with any other cleric kits and improvements but that's the price of working on full-complex system. -.-

Edited by yarpen, 28 January 2010 - 10:12 PM.

[Mike1072]

yarpen, on Jan 28 2010, 10:07 PM, said:

Items allowed me to use -1 spells per level without any problems (for example DR and Demi adds bonus spell to kitless cleric, I don't want to - that's why items are so cool)

What can you do using items that you can't do using separate CLAB files?

Quote

I'm afraid that with my current idea on how-to make a possibility of using any weapon as a Crusader, I'll have to use 3 item restriction lists for 2 kits.

Of course I can let Crusader stay as he is but method was IMO quite cool and I've always wanted to implement it. So...

Goal: create kit who can use items restricted to trueclass & unexpected but very fine outcome remove weapons restriction from multi-clerics.
1st step: allow to trueclass cleric using any weapon
2nd step: create item restriction list (IRL in short form) which prevents using weapons other than allowed to cleric
3rd step: create kit with exactly Cleric description and grant to him previoursly done IRL.
4th step: append 'true' trueclass cleric's CLAB and add effect or summon invisible creature to launch a script which turns him into previoursly done Kit.
5th step: create Crusader kit and give him trueclass's IRL (so: NONE) so he can use any weapon.
6th step: give to the rest of kits appropriate IRL's.

Yes, I know that my mod is going to be completely incompatible with any other cleric kits and improvements but that's the price of working on full-complex system. -.-

Well, you basically have 3 kit usabilities available to you to modify however you wish if you are revising the cleric system. I've kind of wanted to set up a "warrior" cleric / "caster" cleric / "hybrid" cleric system, in which case I'd have usabilities like follows:

Base cleric class can use all weapons, armours, and robes - this would not be used by PCs, and they'd be shifted into a kit using one of the 3 other templates
"Warrior" cleric usability is restricted from robes (and maybe overly magical stuff like Ring of Holiness)
"Caster" cleric usability is restricted from certain weapons and most armours
"Hybrid" cleric usability is restricted from certain weapons and some armours

The Warrior/Caster templates would probably have some appropriate bonuses (like ApR/spells per day) over the Hybrid and maybe some additional penalties (spells per day/THAC0). I can see this system working fairly well for representing different types of priests.

Edited by Mike1072, 28 January 2010 - 11:16 PM.

[yarpen]

But I already have three kits close to being conceptually done. Crusader, Mystic and Speciality Priest. Hmm... damn, it fits. Crusader can use all weapons and armors. Mystic cannot use armors, can use robes and magic scrolls (I'm not sure about weapon restrictions). Speciality Priest shares his usability with standard cleric. Woot. Sorry, I wasn't sleeping for whole night, this idea was fresh and I've miscalculated it a bit

Here are kit's descriptions. Just for people who are curious.

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CRUSADER: When clerics can be described as defenders of the faith, crusader is a weapon against the enemies of temple they serve. He is a true soldier-priests, skilled in physical combat and armed with spells appropriate for the battlefield.

Crusaders must be either lawful or chaotic in alignment.

Spheres access:
- Major: all, combat, guardian, healing, war, wards, law/chaos (depends on alignment)
- Minor: protection, necromantic

Advantages:
- Can use any weapon and armor.
- Use Warrior's ThaC0 progress table instead of Priest's one.
- Once per day can summon Spiritual Weapon, which type depends on his selected faith. Even if it's weapon restricted to clerics, he can use if the caster had grand mastery in the weapon. It's attack and damage rolls, enchantment level and various effects depends on Crusader's level. It's regular weapon at levels 1-5, +1 at levels 6-10, +2 at 11-15, +3 at 16-20, +4 at 21-25, and +5 at levels 26 and above. More details about additional effects you can read in Holy Symbol's description. The Spiritual weapon lasts for one round per level of the caster, up to 20 rounds.
- At 7th level gain additional 1/2 of attack per round when using Spiritual Weapon. Bonus rise to full additional attack at level 14th.

Disadvantages:
- Limited access to spheres of cleric's spells.
- Can cast one spell less per level.
- Cannot turn undead.

MYSTIC: Mystic believe that to serve his deity he needs to experience the world, learn about its hidden beauties and truths, and learn how his inner self relate to outward things.

Mystics are individualistic and indepenedent by nature as such they cannot be lawful in alignment.

Sphere access:
- Major: all, animal, charm, divination, healing, protection, summoning, travelers
- Minor: guardian, necromantic, plant

Advantages:
- Can use wizard's robes and cast mystic spells from scrolls.
- Gain 5 lore points per level.
- Once per day per 4 levels can cast Sleep.
- At 1st level gain +1 bonus to saves vs. spells.
- At 3rd level can once cast Find Familiar.
- At 7th level can three times per day cast Dire Charm.
- At 14th level can once per day cast Mass Charm.

Disasdvantages:
- Uses mage's ThaC0 progress table instead of cleric's one.
- Cannot wear any armor with exception of fine crafted ones.
- Cannot turn undead.

Description STOLEN FROM NightMARE -.-
SPECIALITY PRIEST: The speciality priest is very similiar to the cleric, and typically performs the same kind of duties. Unlike a cleric, homever, his deity grants him certain special abilities and unique powers. Exactly what these powers are depends entirely on the deity in question.

The speciality priests' alignment restrictions, advantages and disadvantages depend entirely on his choice of deity.

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What can you do using items that you can't do using separate CLAB files?

Giving negative modificator of amount of spells which cleric can memorise via CLAB introduces some problems with spell amount calculations. I'm not sure about exactly nature of problems - it's probably about moment when cleric can cast only one spell of certain level. I know that Cam (and Demi) are adding additional spell per day for cleric - I don't like this solution. As far as I know about order of applying effects on character, items don't have this problem because they're loaded exactly at the end of list.

Urm, wish me luck on math exam.

[Shaitan]

Good luck yarpen, as if you need it

[Mike1072]

yarpen, on Jan 28 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

Giving negative modificator of amount of spells which cleric can memorise via CLAB introduces some problems with spell amount calculations. I'm not sure about exactly nature of problems - it's probably about moment when cleric can cast only one spell of certain level. I know that Cam (and Demi) are adding additional spell per day for cleric - I don't like this solution. As far as I know about order of applying effects on character, items don't have this problem because they're loaded exactly at the end of list.

Ah, okay. I think I found the topic where this was discussed. Well, you can use items, but I think it might be a little weird if you unequipped them. I'd suggest altering the default spells per day that clerics get to the lowest amount (crusaders), and then apply bonuses to specialty priests and mystics.

I don't think giving the templates different spell level progressions (e.g. specialty priests getting one L1 spell per day at level 1 while crusaders getting no L1 spells per day at level 1) would be doable, but you could alter the templates' spells per day in a number of other ways. One possibility would be to increase the default # of spells learned at a new level from 1 to 2 (for specialty priests) and decrease bonuses from wisdom modifier. Then crusaders could cast precisely one less spell per day at each level.

Quote

Urm, wish me luck on math exam.

Good luck!

[Jarno Mikkola]

yarpen, on Jan 29 2010, 08:07 AM, said:

Goal: create kit who can use items restricted to trueclass & unexpected but very fine outcome remove weapons restriction from multi-clerics.
1st step: allow to trueclass cleric using any weapon

Done:

BACKUP ~pantheons/backup~
AUTHOR ~* & The Imp~

BEGIN ~Cleric Usability Fix~
  COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
  READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
  PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0002~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0005~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000c~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0010~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0013~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0014~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0018~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0019~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001a~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001d~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001e~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0020~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0043~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0044~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0045~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0049~) THEN BEGIN			 
// http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/file_formats/ie_formats/itm_v1.htm#Header_ItemType
	READ_BYTE 0x1e unusecleric
	WRITE_BYTE 0x1e (unusecleric BAND 01111111)	   
//Cleric	http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/file_formats/ie_formats/itm_v1.htm#Header_Usability
	READ_BYTE 0x1f unusemulti
	WRITE_BYTE 0x1f (unusemulti BAND 00111000)		
//Fighter/Mage/Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Mage, Fighter/Druid, Fighter, Cleric/Ranger, Cleric/Thief, Cleric/Mage
	END
  BUT_ONLY

Now, you only have to assign the Kit usability restrictions to the classes, and then just remove items such as Robes from the Crusader, while the others like Mystic needs to remove the plate mails etc. By the way, this doesn't work without the G3Fixpack, cause few of the item files are unmodable without it.

And I wish all the best skill you need for the exam...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 29 January 2010 - 09:54 AM.

[yarpen]

Quote

Ah, okay. I think I found the topic where this was discussed. Well, you can use items, but I think it might be a little weird if you unequipped them.

That's why you cannot unequip this item. For every Holy Symbol there is one basic file which you can buy in the store. After buying it and equipping it's removed and instead of that I'm placing non-removable item which grants all of the special features (also lesser amount of spells per day).

Quote

Now, you only have to assign the Kit usability restrictions to the classes, and then just remove items such as Robes from the Crusader, while the others like Mystic needs to remove the plate mails etc. By the way, this doesn't work without the G3Fixpack, cause few of the item files are unmodable without it.

Thanks for the code, my item patching skills still aren't so good so you've saved me a lot of work. Uhm, there's a question - when trueclass cleric can use scrolls and robes, fighter-cleric can do it too? Is there a possibility of patching it?

[Jarno Mikkola]

yarpen, on Jan 29 2010, 08:50 PM, said:

Quote

Now, you only have to assign the Kit usability restrictions to the classes, and then just remove items such as Robes from the Crusader, while the others like Mystic needs to remove the plate mails etc. By the way, this doesn't work without the G3Fixpack, cause few of the item files are unmodable without it.

Thanks for the code, my item patching skills still aren't so good so you've saved me a lot of work. Uhm, there's a question - when trueclass cleric can use scrolls and robes, fighter-cleric can do it too? Is there a possibility of patching it?

Well, I might have not included the scrolls... I didn't, but with this it can be:

BACKUP ~pantheons/backup~
AUTHOR ~* & The Imp~

BEGIN ~Cleric Usability Fix~
  COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
  READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
  PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0002~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0005~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000c~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0010~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0013~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0014~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0018~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0019~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001a~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001d~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001e~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0020~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0043~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0044~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0045~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0049~) THEN BEGIN			
// http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/file_formats/ie_formats/itm_v1.htm#Header_ItemType
	READ_BYTE 0x1e unusecleric
	WRITE_BYTE 0x1e (unusecleric BAND 0b01111111)	  
//Cleric	http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/file_formats/ie_formats/itm_v1.htm#Header_Usability
	READ_BYTE 0x1f unusemulti
	WRITE_BYTE 0x1f (unusemulti BAND 0b00111000)		
//Fighter/Mage/Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Mage, Fighter/Druid, Fighter, Cleric/Ranger, Cleric/Thief, Cleric/Mage
	END
  BUT_ONLY

Now that work so that it patches both the original Cleric, and the multi/dualed characters... take note that as the flag is unusable flags in the items, the only feature that the function does with the BAND which means "Bitwise And". 0b101 BAND 0b110 = 0b100; the 1 leave the usable flag as it is, and the zero makes it to zero... so it actually doesn't touch the Fighter/Mage, Fighter/Druid or Fighter's flags at all, but zeroes all the rest if the type is one on the Header_ItemType list, so the item becomes usable.

So with this posts code, the original Cleric, and the Dualed(Cleric) and Multi(Cleric) classed characters all can all use the scrolls as far as I know... but they can't memorize them unless they are mages as well. It also allows the Lawful Good Clerics to use the Carsomyr's... I can of course exclude these type of items if you wish, but I need a list of them.

Now, if you wish to make a list what items the three Kits would not be able to use according to this list, I could probably make the code for that too...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 29 January 2010 - 12:35 PM.

[yarpen]

Quote

So with this posts code, the original Cleric, and the Dualed(Cleric) and Multi(Cleric) classed characters all can all use the scrolls as far as I know... but they can't memorize them unless they are mages as well. It also allows the Lawful Good Clerics to use the Carsomyr's... I can of course exclude these type of items if you wish, but I need a list of them.

Dunno if that's a good solution. I don't like fact that Fighter/Cleric can cast now wizard spells, and it isn't the most important feature of Mystic kit (it's no longer scholar-type, still, possibility of using scrolls would be quite cool...). I'm not sure about what to do here.

And restriction lists? Wow, thanks for your kind offer mr. Impy!

Cleric of Talos: his item restriction is reserved for true-class cleric. Blunt weapons, all armors, shields etc. In addition possibility of using lesser robes (no archmage and Larloch). Cannot use wizard scrolls.
Cleric of Helm: his item restriction code is used by Crusader. Can use any weapon, any armor. Cannot use wizard scrolls as certain. Yes, PnP mentions that DM can allow LG Crusader to wield Holy Avenger, so Karsomir and Purifier please.
Cleric of Lathander: his item restriction code is used by Mystic. Here stuff is a bit complicated. As an PnP character he can use armors and additional equipment which is "finely crafted". His weapons should be restricted to wizard's, I've added club and mace to get additional proficiency points. So, here is my proposition.

CRUSADER (Helm):
- 0x000b (scrolls)
- 0x0043 (robe)

TRUECLASS CLERIC/SPECIALITY PRIEST (Talos):
- 0x0005 (Arrows)
- 0x000b (Scrolls) -- not if there's no possibility of restricting scrolls from fighter/cleric, ranger/cleric and thief/cleric
- 0x000f (Bows)
- 0x0010 (Daggers)
- 0x0013 (Small swords)
- 0x0014 (Large swords)
- 0x0018 (Darts)
- 0x0019 (Axes)
- 0x001b (crossbow)
- 0x001d (Spears)
- 0x001e (Halberds)
- 0x001f (bolts)
- 0x0045 (Bastard Sword)

MYSTIC (Lathander) - here stuff is a bit complicated (items he's capable of using)
- Weapons: Staff, dagger, sling, dart, club, mace.
- Helmets: Ioun Stones, HELM02, HELM04, HELM16
- Armors: robes, elven chains, CHAN18

Edited by yarpen, 29 January 2010 - 07:16 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

yarpen, on Jan 30 2010, 03:15 AM, said:

Dunno if that's a good solution. I don't like fact that Fighter/Cleric can cast now wizard spells, and it isn't the most important feature of Mystic kit (it's no longer scholar-type, still, possibility of using scrolls would be quite cool...). I'm not sure about what to do here.

And restriction lists? Wow, thanks for your kind offer mr. Impy!

Äh, I am an idiot, of course you don't want the none-mage multies to be able to use the mage scrolls... we'll fix that by perhaps adding a function to each item type so we have more control... it's just a trial for the code.

So I'll try to code up the restrictions later, well actually now.

Hmm, by the way, someone should move our posts from here to there... so we don't have a Nightmare to deal with.

yarpen, on Jan 30 2010, 03:15 AM, said:

MYSTIC (Lathander) - here stuff is a bit complicated (items he's capable of using)
- Weapons: Staff, dagger, sling, dart, club, mace.
- Helmets: Ioun Stones, HELM02, HELM04, HELM16
- Armors: robes, elven chains, CHAN18

What about these:
- Misc: Books/misc, Amulets and necklaces, Belts and girdles, Boots, Bracers and gauntlets, Potions, Rings, Scrolls, Food, Bullets, Hand-to-hand weapons, Cloaks and robes, Gold pieces, Gems, Wands, Container/eye/broken armor, Books/Broken shield/bracelet, Familiars/Broken sword/earring, Container, Fur/pelt, Scarf, Gauntlet...

I'll probably put them too, as it's a bit more than just 'complicated', as if I wish to have the 'exact effect', I need to restrict everything and then unrestrict a lot... ... with movie magic.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 30 January 2010 - 04:21 AM.

[yarpen]

Quote

I'll probably put them too, as it's a bit more than just 'complicated', as if I wish to have the 'exact effect', I need to restrict everything and then unrestrict a lot... lol.gif ... with movie magic.

I think that this one can wait a bit. I want to slightly re-do Mystic's restrictions, these should be quite unique and I have to study some item descriptions.

Quote

Hmm, by the way, someone should move our posts from here to there... so we don't have a Nightmare to deal with.

I think instead of that I'm gonna ask cmorgan for G3's hosting for this project. Maybe my ego is too big, but I think that these solutions are quite interesting even for normal (who aren't PnP-whores) players - if there's would be possibility of making it possibly compatible with most of mods, it'd be cool. Also it's a sort of DR's legacy remix so...

I hope that it'll be just fine. But I'm going to need a bit of someone's help with mod blurbs for project site etc. If cmorgan will agree, this topic of course (first part of my starting post will stay here as an info for NightMARE) will be moved.

And thanks again for your help, Jarno. This coding which you're currently using looks like stuff from other planet. ;P