8 replies to this topic

[DavidW]

Just looking through the code for v2.9 (looking for the name of its installation marker) and I notice that you provide your own copies of dw#plane and the like. I doubt this is doing what you want it to:

- if someone installs SR and then installs the "smarter celestials" component of SCSII, your versions get overwritten with mine
- if someone installs SR and then installs SCSII "smarter mages" without "smarter celestials", SCSII will wrongly assume that "smarter celestials" is installed and its mages will use your version. This will cause problems, I think, because I don't think your version has planetar AI that the computer can use (it's programmed to cast restorative spells on the player).

The simplest thing is just not to bother. SCSII is coded so that changes to the baseline summoning spells get propagated to the new ones.

(All this is assuming I'm not missing something.)

Edited by Demivrgvs, 02 August 2009 - 05:45 AM.

[Demivrgvs]

DavidW, on Aug 2 2009, 03:16 PM, said:

Just looking through the code for v2.9 (looking for the name of its installation marker) and I notice that you provide your own copies of dw#plane and the like. I doubt this is doing what you want it to:

1) if someone installs SR and then installs the "smarter celestials" component of SCSII, your versions get overwritten with mine
2) if someone installs SR and then installs SCSII "smarter mages" without "smarter celestials", SCSII will wrongly assume that "smarter celestials" is installed and its mages will use your version. This will cause problems, I think, because I don't think your version has planetar AI that the computer can use (it's programmed to cast restorative spells on the player).

Thanks for pointing this out! Actually I thought this solution was the one you indicated me ages ago, but let's see what we can do.

1) mmm, this is not good, especially because I suppose you version doesn't take into account all the changes applied by SR to devas/planetars. It's not a problem instead for gated demons because SCSII demons and SR's ones have almost identical special abilities and thus both scripts should be fine.
2) this may not be a problem at all instead. Fallen devas/planetars don't have healing spells within SR and should work fine when summoned by SCS mages. The problem actually is that I'm leaving them with your AI instead of assigning them mines, thus they won't use all the new spells. I don't think there's a single opponent within BG that summons a good planetar against players, but I may prevent the healing issue via 'if last summoner of myself - goodcut off' check.

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The simplest thing is just not to bother. SCSII is coded so that changes to the baseline summoning spells get propagated to the new ones.

The problem with this if I'm not wrong is that your AI takes into account vanilla's spell selection for these summons, and fallen versions within SR are a lot different than good aligned ones.


Personally I see two solutions:
a) I keep the current solution but assign my script to SCS versions of these spells. Does Smarter Celestial component affect anything else other than Summon Deva/Planetar spells? If not than SR players may simply skip the respective component of SCS.
b) you take into account SR's changes yourself.

Speaking of b), have you fixed the issue which was erroneously patching SR's Death Knight?

[DavidW]

Demivrgvs, on Aug 2 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Thanks for pointing this out! Actually I thought this solution was the one you indicated me ages ago, but let's see what we can do.

Possibly; if so, I was wrong. It works for death knights because I explicitly allowed for it.

I see the problem with spells. I'd rather not enable the SR AI, though, because the script is relatively unsophisticated (which isn't a criticism: SR isn't a tactical mod). I think it's probably simplest if I just write some SR-specific AI. Can you give me a list of the spells that planetars and devas have?

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Speaking of b), have you fixed the issue which was erroneously patching SR's Death Knight?

It's on my to-do list.

[Demivrgvs]

DavidW, on Aug 2 2009, 04:55 PM, said:

I see the problem with spells. I'd rather not enable the SR AI, though, because the script is relatively unsophisticated (which isn't a criticism: SR isn't a tactical mod). I think it's probably simplest if I just write some SR-specific AI. Can you give me a list of the spells that planetars and devas have?

Yesss!

Fallen Deva has the following spells:
1° Doom (x3), Resist Fear (x3)
2° Hold Person (x3), Find Trap, Know Alignment, Silence 15' Radius
3° Contagion (x2), Unholy Blight (x2), Remove Curse (x2)
4° Cause Critical Wounds (x2), Poison (x2), Cloak of Fear
5° Flame Strike, Greater Command, True Seeing
6° Blade Barrier, Harm
7° Unholy Word

Fallen Planetar instead:
1° Doom (x3), Resist Fear (x3)
2° Hold Person (x3), Find Trap, Know Alignment, Silence 15' Radius
3° Contagion (x2), Unholy Blight (x2), Remove Curse (x2)
4° Cause Critical Wounds (x2), Mental Domination (x2), Poison (x2), Cloak of Fear (x2)
5° Flame Strike (x2), Greater Command (x2), True Seeing (x2)
6° Blade Barrier, Dolorous Decay, Harm
7° Firestorm, Unoly Word

If you want good aligned celestial too. Deva has:
1° Bless (x3), Resist Fear (x3)
2° Aid (x3), Find Trap, Know Alignment, Draw Upon Divine Might
3° Cure Disease (x2), Holy Smite (x2), Remove Curse (x2)
4° Cure Critical Wounds (x2), Neutralize Poison (x2), Protection from Evil 10' radius
5° Mass Cure, Raise Dead, True Seeing
6° Blade Barrier, Heal
7° Holy Word

And Planetar:
1° Bless (x3), Resist Fear (x3)
2° Aid (x3), Find Trap, Know Alignment, Draw Upon Divine Might
3° Cure Disease (x2), Holy Smite (x2), Remove Curse (x2)
4° Cure Critical Wounds (x2), Death Ward (x2), Neutralize Poison (x2), Protection from Evil 10' radius (x2)
5° Chaotic Commands (x2), Raise Dead (x2), True Seeing (x2)
6° Blade Barrier, Bolt of Glory, Heal
7° Greater Restoration, Holy Word

If I'm not wrong you actually need only two scripts, because devas have a subset of planetars' spells. Feel free to suggest a better spell selection, but I think I did a good job with them.

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Speaking of b), have you fixed the issue which was erroneously patching SR's Death Knight?

It's on my to-do list.

Great. In terms of spells SR's Death Knight should be almost identical to SCS's Demon Knight.

[Kalindor]

DavidW said:

I think it's probably simplest if I just write some SR-specific AI.

A slippery slope, David.

Edited by Kalindor, 02 August 2009 - 09:33 AM.

[DavidW]

@Demi:

- I don't need good-aligned devas and planetars; SCS doesn't use them, because basically there are no plausible users (more accurately: so few and so minor that it's not worth the effort)
- Is Greater Command party-friendly in SR?
- Isn't Cure/Cause Critical Wounds 5th level?

Kalindor, on Aug 2 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

DavidW said:

I think it's probably simplest if I just write some SR-specific AI.

A slippery slope, David.

A fair point, but this kind of AI isn't at all difficult to do within SCS - a combination of SSL automating a lot of stuff, and modular code design that makes it easy to put something together from existing stuff.

[Demivrgvs]

DavidW, on Aug 3 2009, 12:28 AM, said:

- I don't need good-aligned devas and planetars; SCS doesn't use them, because basically there are no plausible users (more accurately: so few and so minor that it's not worth the effort)

As I thought, but I posted them for completeness.

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- Is Greater Command party-friendly in SR?

Yes.

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- Isn't Cure/Cause Critical Wounds 5th level?

Within SR Cure/Cause Wounds are moved down to one level. I'll try to summarize:
* Cure Moderate Wounds has been moved from 3rd to 2nd level (there was no 2nd level healing spell)
* Cause/Cure Serious Wounds have been moved from 4th to 3rd level
* Cause/Cure Critical Wounds have been moved from 5th to 4th level
* the 5th level equivalent of these kind of spells are Slay Living and Mass Cure
* the old Cause/Cure Critical Wounds at 5th level are replaced with Cause/Cure Mortal Wounds, but players won't have them, they are there just in case the AI looks for the old spells (unlikely in the case of Cause Serious Wounds as it was clearly useless imo)

Edited by Demivrgvs, 02 August 2009 - 02:56 PM.

[DavidW]

Demivrgvs, on Aug 2 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

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- Isn't Cure/Cause Critical Wounds 5th level?

Within SR Cure/Cause Wounds are moved down to one level. I'll try to summarize:
* Cure Moderate Wounds has been moved from 3rd to 2nd level (there was no 2nd level healing spell)
* Cause/Cure Serious Wounds have been moved from 4th to 3rd level
* Cause/Cure Critical Wounds have been moved from 5th to 4th level
* the 5th level equivalent of these kind of spells are Slay Living and Mass Cure
* the old Cause/Cure Critical Wounds at 5th level are replaced with Cause/Cure Mortal Wounds, but players won't have them, they are there just in case the AI looks for the old spells (unlikely in the case of Cause Serious Wounds as it was clearly useless imo)

OK, so CLERIC_CURE_CRITICAL_WOUNDS now actually gets me Cure Mortal Wounds, got it.

Is it really worth a Planetar bothering with a Cause Critical Wounds touch attack rather than attacking?

[Demivrgvs]

DavidW, on Aug 3 2009, 12:10 PM, said:

Demivrgvs, on Aug 2 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

Quote

- Isn't Cure/Cause Critical Wounds 5th level?

Within SR Cure/Cause Wounds are moved down to one level. I'll try to summarize:
* Cure Moderate Wounds has been moved from 3rd to 2nd level (there was no 2nd level healing spell)
* Cause/Cure Serious Wounds have been moved from 4th to 3rd level
* Cause/Cure Critical Wounds have been moved from 5th to 4th level
* the 5th level equivalent of these kind of spells are Slay Living and Mass Cure
* the old Cause/Cure Critical Wounds at 5th level are replaced with Cause/Cure Mortal Wounds, but players won't have them, they are there just in case the AI looks for the old spells (unlikely in the case of Cause Serious Wounds as it was clearly useless imo)

OK, so CLERIC_CURE_CRITICAL_WOUNDS now actually gets me Cure Mortal Wounds, got it.

Yeah.

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Is it really worth a Planetar bothering with a Cause Critical Wounds touch attack rather than attacking?

Well, no imo. Even moving them down of one level these spells are still very unappealing and uneffective imo, but I gave them to fallen celestials for conceptual reasons.

I've thought about making cause wounds spells heal undead creatures (and vice versa cure wounds), but I don't think this would make them much more appealing, while it would surely cause some issue with the AI trying to cure an undead with a cure wound spell.