14 replies to this topic

[kuderlin]

Hi, i created an account only to create this topic.
I really like the thought of making enemies smarter instead of just giving them more
immunities to make the game more challenging.
However there´s a lof of bugs/ enemies cheating in my version so i will uninstall scs if i can´t solve those issues.
1, I clearly choose the spell "protection from normal missiles" not to protect against magical ammunition yet my
enemies are protected from them while using this spell.
2, I did not choose to include BG2 spells in BG but yet i can´t hit certain enemies (devadaourn ex) in melee although
he´s does not have any protection up except for some sort of armor (ghost/spirit armor),
Those magical armors have to expire before i can hit him in melee.
He also uses cone of cold, and Melf's Minute Meteors i´m not 100% those two spells are bg2 only though.
3, Most enemies are following me through invisibility and they are not only following me but trying to
eliminate my escape route.
4, I clearly chose not to use "potions of extra healing" still a lot of enemies are using them.
5," Protection from undead" scroll does not work against the summoned skeleton archers/warriors
summoned when one of the enemies are killed.
6, the thief skill "detection illusion" does not always work as it should.
In the final battle, "Semaj" went invisible after i used detect illusion skill to dispel his invisibility+ mirror image.
In the text it read that his illusion was dispelled but he was still invisible,
(he did not use non detection according to the combat log).
The options with me not using "Extra healing potions", "Protection from normal missiles" and "BG2 spells in BG"
i choose to not implement them nor to me or my enemies.
Some of those issues can be killers for a solo no reloader and i don´t usually complain at all but if not most of those
issues can be fixed i will uninstall SCS for now.
I have completed solo no reload runs in vanilla BG on insane easily and almost done it in SCS but those bugs
are so irritating and gives enemies unfair advantages.

Edited by kuderlin, 18 June 2009 - 01:41 PM.

[Saros]

kuderlin, on Jun 19 2009, 12:38 AM, said:

Hi, i created an account only to create this topic.
I really like the thought of making enemies smarter instead of just giving them more
immunities to make the game more challenging.
However there´s a lof of bugs/ enemies cheating in my version so i will uninstall scs if i can´t solve those issues.
1, I clearly choose the spell "protection from normal missiles" not to protect against magical ammunition yet my
enemies are protected from them while using this spell.
2, I did not choose to include BG2 spells in BG but yet i can´t hit certain enemies (devadaourn ex) in melee although
he´s does not have any protection up except for some sort of armor (ghost/spirit armor),
Those magical armors have to expire before i can hit him in melee.
He also uses cone of cold, and Melf's Minute Meteors i´m not 100% those two spells are bg2 only though.
3, Most enemies are following me through invisibility and they are not only following me but trying to
eliminate my escape route.
4, I clearly chose not to use "potions of extra healing" still a lot of enemies are using them.
5," Protection from undead" scroll does not work against the summoned skeleton archers/warriors
summoned when one of the enemies are killed.
6, the thief skill "detection illusion" does not always work as it should.
In the final battle, "Semaj" went invisible after i used detect illusion skill to dispel his invisibility+ mirror image.
In the text it read that his illusion was dispelled but he was still invisible,
(he did not use non detection according to the combat log).
The options with me not using "Extra healing potions", "Protection from normal missiles" and "BG2 spells in BG"
i choose to not implement them nor to me or my enemies.
Some of those issues can be killers for a solo no reloader and i don´t usually complain at all but if not most of those
issues can be fixed i will uninstall SCS for now.
I have completed solo no reload runs in vanilla BG on insane easily and almost done it in SCS but those bugs
are so irritating and gives enemies unfair advantages.

1. I have the same problem. My thought is that the installation of ProMissiles always sets it to protect vs all missiles, no matter what you choose on installation.

2. The fact that you didn't choose to install BG2 spells means only one thing: you probably won't find any BG2-related spell scrolls. Enemy mages will still use BG2-related spells like Remove Magic, Stoneskin, MMM, etc.
The enemy magical armors do not have to expire, but you need a good THAC0 to hit the enemy through his Armor spells. Your surest way to remove these buffs is via Dispellation arrow, but you need a good archer with a good enchanted bow in order to hit. Also, until Davaeorn, the only Dispellation arrows you can find are inside Durlag's tower (catacombs level 1 has 2, level 3 has 10), and these levels are quite frightening. Still, the 2 arrows on lvl 1 can be acquired relatively easily, and used in this particular fight vs Davaeorn.

3. This is part of Improved AI and is not a bug nor a cheat. Enemies will not relentlessly follow you under Invisibility, but will chase you for some time. I.e. you can confuse them.

4. As with other SCS components, the fact that you chose not to use Extra healing potions either didn't work at all, or affects only you (i.e. you won't find any to use)

5. Quite true. I thought that only I had this problem. Especially vs BG1 Skeleton Warriors, ProUndead scrolls do not work.

6. Detect Illusion works fine. You simply have to spend some time doing nothing, simply detecting illusions.

About the other bug (PC dispels illusion, enemy remains hidden), the enemy is in fact not invisible - he's there, but due to a game bug, he cannot be seen. I have encountered this bug in no-reloads solo, where it is extremely annoying, and I summon monsters from a wand (the monsters see the enemy who is in fact not invisible anymore, just bugged) to kill the enemy mage.

And yes, the game can be beaten in a solo no-reload insane with those described bugs. I have done it several times. Do not despair and try anew. Good luck!

[kuderlin]

Saros, on Jun 19 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

kuderlin, on Jun 19 2009, 12:38 AM, said:

Hi, i created an account only to create this topic.
I really like the thought of making enemies smarter instead of just giving them more
immunities to make the game more challenging.
However there´s a lof of bugs/ enemies cheating in my version so i will uninstall scs if i can´t solve those issues.
1, I clearly choose the spell "protection from normal missiles" not to protect against magical ammunition yet my
enemies are protected from them while using this spell.
2, I did not choose to include BG2 spells in BG but yet i can´t hit certain enemies (devadaourn ex) in melee although
he´s does not have any protection up except for some sort of armor (ghost/spirit armor),
Those magical armors have to expire before i can hit him in melee.
He also uses cone of cold, and Melf's Minute Meteors i´m not 100% those two spells are bg2 only though.
3, Most enemies are following me through invisibility and they are not only following me but trying to
eliminate my escape route.
4, I clearly chose not to use "potions of extra healing" still a lot of enemies are using them.
5," Protection from undead" scroll does not work against the summoned skeleton archers/warriors
summoned when one of the enemies are killed.
6, the thief skill "detection illusion" does not always work as it should.
In the final battle, "Semaj" went invisible after i used detect illusion skill to dispel his invisibility+ mirror image.
In the text it read that his illusion was dispelled but he was still invisible,
(he did not use non detection according to the combat log).
The options with me not using "Extra healing potions", "Protection from normal missiles" and "BG2 spells in BG"
i choose to not implement them nor to me or my enemies.
Some of those issues can be killers for a solo no reloader and i don´t usually complain at all but if not most of those
issues can be fixed i will uninstall SCS for now.
I have completed solo no reload runs in vanilla BG on insane easily and almost done it in SCS but those bugs
are so irritating and gives enemies unfair advantages.

1. I have the same problem. My thought is that the installation of ProMissiles always sets it to protect vs all missiles, no matter what you choose on installation.

2. The fact that you didn't choose to install BG2 spells means only one thing: you probably won't find any BG2-related spell scrolls. Enemy mages will still use BG2-related spells like Remove Magic, Stoneskin, MMM, etc.
The enemy magical armors do not have to expire, but you need a good THAC0 to hit the enemy through his Armor spells. Your surest way to remove these buffs is via Dispellation arrow, but you need a good archer with a good enchanted bow in order to hit. Also, until Davaeorn, the only Dispellation arrows you can find are inside Durlag's tower (catacombs level 1 has 2, level 3 has 10), and these levels are quite frightening. Still, the 2 arrows on lvl 1 can be acquired relatively easily, and used in this particular fight vs Davaeorn.

3. This is part of Improved AI and is not a bug nor a cheat. Enemies will not relentlessly follow you under Invisibility, but will chase you for some time. I.e. you can confuse them.

4. As with other SCS components, the fact that you chose not to use Extra healing potions either didn't work at all, or affects only you (i.e. you won't find any to use)

5. Quite true. I thought that only I had this problem. Especially vs BG1 Skeleton Warriors, ProUndead scrolls do not work.

6. Detect Illusion works fine. You simply have to spend some time doing nothing, simply detecting illusions.

About the other bug (PC dispels illusion, enemy remains hidden), the enemy is in fact not invisible - he's there, but due to a game bug, he cannot be seen. I have encountered this bug in no-reloads solo, where it is extremely annoying, and I summon monsters from a wand (the monsters see the enemy who is in fact not invisible anymore, just bugged) to kill the enemy mage.

And yes, the game can be beaten in a solo no-reload insane with those described bugs. I have done it several times. Do not despair and try anew. Good luck!

Hey man, thanks for your response.

1, ProMissiles did protect against +1 arrows but not vs arrows of fire although both should work.

2, Thanks for the tip.
I hit him with like 5-6 back stabs after his mirror image was dispelled and it counted as a hit but he took
no damage and from what i could tell he did not use stoneskin just ghost/spirit armor at that point.

Thanks for the input on the rest of the questions.

Best / Kuderlin

[Saros]

I don't know if this has been described, but I think that enemies should recognize the 'Shield' ability cast from the Shield Amulet and not waste 'Magic Missile' spells on a character protected by a Shield charge. On several occasions enemies prefer showering my solo lvl 8 berserker with multiple ineffective MM instead of shooting their far more dangerous Chromatic Orbs for example.

In addition to this, I've noticed that two enemies (maybe more, but my report is about Borda and Nimbul) use their Minor Sequencer loaded with 2*Magic Missile, and although my fighter was protected via Shield charge, those 2*MM did their full amount of damage. Magic Missiles cast afterwards by these same mages had no effect at all (due to proper working Shield of course). So it turns out that sequencered Magic Missiles penetrate Shield, hm?

[DavidW]

Hi,

Some of this looks like bugs in the game, some of it looks like you might want to check the readme and look at your choice of install options.

kuderlin, on Jun 18 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

Hi, i created an account only to create this topic.
I really like the thought of making enemies smarter instead of just giving them more
immunities to make the game more challenging.
However there´s a lof of bugs/ enemies cheating in my version so i will uninstall scs if i can´t solve those issues.
1, I clearly choose the spell "protection from normal missiles" not to protect against magical ammunition yet my
enemies are protected from them while using this spell.

I think you mean by that that you installed this component: "Only +1 and better missiles penetrate Protection from Normal Missiles, and +1 missiles are replaced by nonmagical Masterwork versions". What missiles are you using which don't penetrate?

Quote

2, I did not choose to include BG2 spells in BG but yet i can´t hit certain enemies (devadaourn ex) in melee although
he´s does not have any protection up except for some sort of armor (ghost/spirit armor),
Those magical armors have to expire before i can hit him in melee.
He also uses cone of cold, and Melf's Minute Meteors i´m not 100% those two spells are bg2 only though.

Saros is right that the "include BG2 spells in BG" applies only to scrolls that you find. There should, however, be an option as part of the mage component to get enemies to use only BG1 spells. Are you saying that you chose this option and it's not functioning correctly? If so, it might be helpful if you posted the contents of your weidu.log.

Quote

3, Most enemies are following me through invisibility and they are not only following me but trying to
eliminate my escape route.

This isn't really intended; getting optimal behaviour with invisibility (especially with solo characters) has been difficult to get right and probably needs more work. (SCS is mostly tested in a non-solo environment; soloing issues sometimes catch me out.)

Quote

4, I clearly chose not to use "potions of extra healing" still a lot of enemies are using them.

That's intended behaviour: that component is only for reintroducing them to temples and stores. I think the readme's fairly clear on this.

Quote

5," Protection from undead" scroll does not work against the summoned skeleton archers/warriors
summoned when one of the enemies are killed.

BG1 skeleton warriors are flagged as non-undead. I believe this is to make them immune to turning in accordance with PnP rules. I just copy the in-game skeleton warriors. Since there are no pro/undead scrolls in BG1, I'm fairly unmoved by the fact that they don't work.

Quote

6, the thief skill "detection illusion" does not always work as it should.

I don't modify that ability, so this isn't an SCS issue.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

DavidW, on Aug 9 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

BG1 skeleton warriors are flagged as non-undead. I believe this is to make them immune to turning in accordance with PnP rules.

It's better to use opcode #297 for that. Undead creatures who are not properly flagged as such will cause problems for spells and items which grant specific bonuses against them. Also, note that some mod related spells and abilities (i.e. RR's Paralytic Toxin) use EFF targeting which prevents them from working on undead, so improperly flagged creatures will cause issues here as well.

Quote

I just copy the in-game skeleton warriors. Since there are no pro/undead scrolls in BG1, I'm fairly unmoved by the fact that they don't work.

Actually, Protection from Undead scrolls were available even in vanilla BG1 (High Hedge) and should therefore be in Tutu/BGT as well. However, if they cause AI problems (and I imagine they might) it would be better to alter/remove them than to flag undead creatures improperly.

Quote

6, the thief skill "detection illusion" does not always work as it should.

IIRC, older Tutu versions used BG1 spells which didn't have proper secondary type assignments for most spells. This caused problems similar to the one you described. Newer EasyTutu versions use BG2 spells as a base and thus don't have these issues.

[DavidW]

aVENGER_(RR), on Aug 9 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

DavidW, on Aug 9 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

BG1 skeleton warriors are flagged as non-undead. I believe this is to make them immune to turning in accordance with PnP rules.

It's better to use opcode #297 for that. Undead creatures who are not properly flagged as such will cause problems for spells and items which grant specific bonuses against them.

I'm pretty sympathetic to this, but I don't really regard it as an SCS problem - like I say, I'm just cloning the BG1 skeleton warriors.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

DavidW, on Aug 9 2009, 03:06 PM, said:

I'm pretty sympathetic to this, but I don't really regard it as an SCS problem - like I say, I'm just cloning the BG1 skeleton warriors.

SCS's "Correct various errors on race, class etc." component could fix that, since it already deals with the issue in a way:

SCS Readme said:

Skeleton warriors are made monsters rather than human (they can't be made "undead" as they're non-turnable).

With the above mentioned opcode, you can now safely change them into proper undead.

[Saros]

I don't know if this counts as a bug, but am posting it here nonetheless.

While experimenting with the Algrenon's cloak on some high level mages (managed to capture them with almost untouched spell arsenal), I noticed that they have high level spells which they never use. Namely Shandrissa captured my attention as she had one memorized Protection from Magical Weapons, while at the same time Angelo has one Improved Haste memorized. Of course, once a mage is charmed, these spells are extremely useful for the player, but how about enemies actually using these high-level spell in their own benefit?

[DavidW]

Saros, on Aug 10 2009, 10:29 AM, said:

I don't know if this counts as a bug,

It does. Thanks.

[DavidW]

MCaesar, on Feb 22 2010, 04:26 AM, said:

I have a totally different complaint about SCS (which is awesome, by the way!), having to do with Smarter AI using potions when they clearly should NOT have the ability to do so by the rules of the engine.

Namely, if the AI gets morale failure due to my mages throwing out Emotion or Horror, or if they take too much damage, they are STILL able to chug potions of healing, heroism, strength, invisibility, etc.

Considering that my characters can't access their inventories/use items when panicked either from damage or spells, but the enemies can still chug a potion a round and thus protracting a battle (and denying me their potions, heh)... I find that kind of unfair.

Sure, I can roleplay that the enemies are desperate and are running around like headless chickens, digging through their packs and bringing out potions to keep their sorry hides alive one more day, but why shouldn't my own panicked party have that option if the potions are on their quick items/inventories?

Actually, the engine generically runs scripts even when creatures are under Fear - you can get your own characters to do certain similar things. So I actually need to put code into the AI specifically to stop them doing things like drinking potions when they're suffering Fear. The latest version of SCS does this (should be out in the next 24-48 hrs).

[DavidW]

Guest, on Feb 23 2010, 10:18 PM, said:

DavidW, on Feb 21 2010, 11:45 PM, said:

MCaesar, on Feb 22 2010, 04:26 AM, said:

I have a totally different complaint about SCS (which is awesome, by the way!), having to do with Smarter AI using potions when they clearly should NOT have the ability to do so by the rules of the engine.

Namely, if the AI gets morale failure due to my mages throwing out Emotion or Horror, or if they take too much damage, they are STILL able to chug potions of healing, heroism, strength, invisibility, etc.

Considering that my characters can't access their inventories/use items when panicked either from damage or spells, but the enemies can still chug a potion a round and thus protracting a battle (and denying me their potions, heh)... I find that kind of unfair.

Sure, I can roleplay that the enemies are desperate and are running around like headless chickens, digging through their packs and bringing out potions to keep their sorry hides alive one more day, but why shouldn't my own panicked party have that option if the potions are on their quick items/inventories?

Actually, the engine generically runs scripts even when creatures are under Fear - you can get your own characters to do certain similar things. So I actually need to put code into the AI specifically to stop them doing things like drinking potions when they're suffering Fear. The latest version of SCS does this (should be out in the next 24-48 hrs).

Oh, really? I never used scripts before. Your Ease-of-Use AI is the first I ever did, and it really does help! I'll be downloading the newest version shortly.

Actually, just to point out... Ease-of-Use seems to not make Sorcerers follow the "all but mages use melee weapons when F(?) is pressed". It scared me when I pressed that button and my Sorcerer pulled out his quarterstaff to smash a spider!

Elapsed time since first bug report... actually, nearly a day. That might be some sort of record.

Seriously, thanks, and I'll fix it next time around.