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SR V3


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#1 Demivrgvs

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 02:11 AM

After ages I have some time to mod and thus I'll try to track down everything that must be done or might be for V3. I'm not looking for too much work, but I may add a few features if they don't require much time, thus feel free to post suggestions to spells I'm not talking about myslef.

For changes included in the pre-release V2.9 look here.


Global Changes


TuTu Compatibility Done
V3 will be completely compatibile with TuTu.

NPCs Spellbooks Done
NPCs spellbooks are now automatically updated without using the current "Restoration Scroll' system. :D

1PP Deva/Planetar Done
As of V2.9 I applied a considerable restyle to devas and planetars appearence (look here), and a lot of changes as well (such as adding Flaming Swords to fallen devas). Mike asked me to make this aesthetic change optional, and we end up making it not only optional, but installable on its own without SR main component. Mike also managed to make it compatible with PnP Celestial mod in case someone prefers that mod over SR's celestials (don't ask me why we help our competition :D ).

Bug-fixes and corrected typos Done
Obviously the current hotfix will be included in V3, but I also have a few new fixes and improved descriptions to include within V3.


Arcane Spells


Armor Done
I've capped it at 12th level (AC 3) instead of 20th (AC 1), because it was making Ghost Armor and Spirit Armor too unappealing imo.


Color Spray Done
Its area of effect has been considerably reduced (from 30 feet length to 15) and the cone will now have to start from the caster's hands (it previously had a 10 feet range). Could it be enough to rebalance it?


Larloch's Minor Drain Done
I've slightly improved it at player's request. "With this spell, the wizard drains the life force from a target and adds it to his own. The target creature suffers 2 points of damage, while the mage gains 2 hit points. For every two extra levels of the caster the draining is augmented by 2 points (up to a miximum of 10 points at 9th level). If the mage goes over his maximum hit point total with this spell, he loses it after 1 turn".


Reflected Image Done
The spell now grants 50% miss chance (the image cannot be destroyed) for a very limited amount of time (4 rounds +1 round every 3 levels up to 1 turn at 18th level). Look at Mirror Image changes for an important tweak which considerably affects this spell.

"Upon casting this spell, the wizard creates one illusory image of himself that will travel alongside him. The image performs all of the actions that the wizard does, and seems to react normally to both physical and magical damage (such as appearing to be burned when hit by a fireball) so that if any enemies are trying to attack the wizard they will not know which one is real. There is a 50% chance that an attacker will attack the image and a 50% chance that he will attack the caster. The image is immune to all forms of damage, but will disappear if a dispel magic or a dispel illusion spell is cast upon it, or when the spell duration runs out. This spell cannot be cast on anyone who is under the effects of a Mirror Image spell, and multiple castings of this spell cannot create additional images".


Detect Alignment Done
Replaces Detect Evil, and pratically does what vanilla's Know Alignment did to a single target.


Glitterdust Done
Re-built to make it fully compatibile with SCS and RR. Blindness is now replaced by a dazzling effect (-2 THAC0 penalty, no save), and targets are allowed a save vs. breath to avoid being covered by the dust (cannot hide for 4 rounds). The "reveal invisible opponents" on cast still don't allow a save as per vanilla.


Luck Done
Duration has been increased to 1 hour (5 turns).


Know Opponent Done
Replaces Know Alignment. "When this spell is cast, the wizard's eyes glow with magical energy, enabling him to read the aura of a creature, and determine the creature's strengths or weaknesses. For the duration of the spell any attack against the target creature is made with a +2 bonus to attack rolls, and the target's physical resistance is lowered by 10%. Certain magical devices negate the power of the Know Opponent spell, and the spell has no effect on creatures who don't emanate any aura such as constructs. Magic resistance does not affect this spell".


Mirror Image Done
AoE damaging spells are now able to "bypass" mirror image-like effects. Spells such as Fireball and Horrid Wilting will now correctly damage the caster without destroying any image. Its duration has been greatly increased from 1round/level to 5 turns.


Power Word Sleep Done
Now affect those with 20 hit point or more with a save vs. spell to negate the effects. I know PW normally don't allow a save but the "1 round no save" solution was exploitable, and I've recently discovered this spell do allow a save both in PnP (where it's a Red Wizard spell) and in IWDII.


Web Done
"Elementals, incorporeal and flying creatures are not affected from this spell, as well as exceptionally large or strong creatures who may suffer little or no distress".


Ghost Armor Done
It now belongs to the Illusion school (instead of Conjuration), and can be cast on other targets, granting AC 2.

Obviously the spell will not be affected by Breach anymore, but rather by True Seeing.


Break Enchantment (replaces Remove Curse) Done
"Upon casting this spell, the mage is able to free a victim from enchantments, and curses. The spell can reverse the effects of confusion and feeblemind, free a victim from magical sleep, and break the effects of a curse. Note that Break Enchantment cannot remove the curse from a cursed shield, weapon, or suit of armor, for example, but allows those afflicted with any such cursed item to get rid of it. Certain special curses may not be countered by this spell, or may be countered only by a caster of a certain level or through a particular ritual".

It now cures confusion, feeblemind and sleep, making it much more appealing than a simple remove curse.


Monster Summoning I Done
At 12th level it will now summons 4 hobgoblins and 1 shaman.

Hobgoblin Shaman (4 Hit Dice):
STR 13, DEX 11, CON 15, INT 9, WIS 14, CHA 9; AL Lawful Evil
HP 36, AC 5, THAC0 16, Saving Throws 14/16/15/17/17
1 Attack Per Round, 1d8+2 Slashing Damage (Long Sword +1)

Memorized Spells:
1° Armor of Faith, Bless, Cure Light Wounds (x2), Resist Fear
2° Chant, Hold Person, Silence 15' Radius


Monster Summoning II Done
At 12th level it will now summons 3 gnolls and 1 gnoll leader.

Gnoll Captain (5 Hit Dice):
STR 17, DEX 15, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 9; AL Chaotic Evil
HP 56, AC 3, THAC0 13, Saving Throws 13/15/14/16/16
2 Attacks Per Round, 1d10+5 Slashing Damage (Bastard Sword +1)


Dimension Door Done
Re-introduced within BG2. I've also added a small but cool feature: opponents who were casting a spell against the caster of DD will fail the current spell, as they are temporarily unable to detect the mage while he moves from one place to another. :crazyeyes:

We were discussing about raising the range of this spell and remove the line-of-sight restriction as per PnP. The problem within BG is that the combo Farsight + DD would be able to create some issues like:
- being able to enter Bodhi's lair teleporting in (a serious game breaking issue)
- being able to escape mind flyer prisons (probably another game breaking issue)
- being able to teleport behind doors which would normally require a key or a trigger (e.g. the door in the mind flyer city, a few blocked walls in the shade lord dungeon ...)


Monster Summoning III Done
At 12th level it will now summons 2 ogre berserkers and 1 ogre mage.

Ogre Mage (6 Hit Dice):
STR 18/00, DEX 9, CON 17, INT 15, WIS 11, CHA 13; AL Chaotic Evil
HP 56, AC 2, THAC0 11, Saving Throws 11/13/12/13/14
1 Attack Per Round, 1d10+9 Crushing Damage (Katana +1)

Special Qualities:
Regeneration: 1 hp/round

Memorized Spells:
1° Blindness, Magic Missile (x2), Shield
2° Horror, Mirror Image
3° Dire Charm, Slow


Summon Shadow Done
Summon Shadow is moved to 5th level and replaces the old Animate Dead. Shadows now are 3HD creatures but at 12th level the spell now summons 2 wraiths, which pratically are more powerful shadows.

Wraith (5 Hit Dice):
STR -, DEX 15, CON -, INT 11, WIS 13, CHA 12; AL Lawful Evil
HP 60, AC 4, THAC0 11, Saving Throws 10/13/10/13/13
1 Attack Per Round, 1d6+1 Cold Damage (Touch +1)

Combat Abilities:
Life Drain: each successeful hit raises wraith hit points by 5 for 1 turn, the target must save vs. death or lose 1 level

Special Qualities:
Immune to normal weapons
Immune to backstab, charm, confusion, hold, poison, sleep, stun & death effects
Cold Resistance 100%; Physical Damage Resistance 50%


Sunfire Done
Quite few changes here:
- it now uses a custom projectile (no more fireball on caster's head)
- doesn't bypasses magic resistance anymore
- AoE reduced to 15 feet hoping to make it more viable for non soloers
- casting time set to 1 (instead of vanilla's 3, and SR's 5)


Create Undead Done
I did quite much on this one. First of all this spell now is a 6th level spell (it "replaces" Summon Shadow, which previously replaced Summon Carrion Crawler) and is available to both mages and clerics. V2 Ghasts are still there but at 15th level instead of ghasts the spell now summons two 7HD mummies (the despair ability is the only thing I still have to refine).

Mummy (7 Hit Dice):
STR 18/99, DEX 9, CON -, INT 6, WIS 12, CHA 10; AL Lawful Evil
HP 84, AC 3, THAC0 10, Saving Throws 9/11/10/12/12
1 Attack Per Round, 1d12+6 Crushing Damage (Touch +1)

Combat Abilities:
Mummy Rot: target must save vs. death or be affected by a foul disease, which inflicts 1 point of damage every 3 seconds for 1 turn. At the end of the turn victim's constitution, and charisma are reduced by 2.

Special Qualities:
Despair: at the mere sight of a mummy targets must save vs. spell or be paralyzed with fear for 2 rounds. Whether or not the save is successful, creatures cannot be affected again by despair ability for 8 hours.
Immune to normal weapons
Immune to charm, confusion, disease, hold, poison, sleep, stun, & death effects
Cold Resistance 100%; Fire Resistance -25%
Physical Damage Resistance 50%


Protection from Magical Weapons Done
We discussed this overpowered spell a lot, and as of now the best solution seems to reduce its duration to 3 rounds, making (Improved) Mantle a little more appealing. I know unexperienced players (or simply those who don't like hardcore micromanegement) may not consider this spell too appealing, but trust me (and any veteran BG players), this spell was, and probably still is, THE combat protection spell.


Tenser's Transformation Done
Vanilla's 2x hit point bonus is ridiculous imo. The effect is ok for wizards (more or less goes up to +40 hp), and used by bards is a little too much but still bearable (+60 hp, but bards also level up faster!), the overpowerness is noticeable in all its glory when we talk about fighter/mages who can get up to 150+ additional hit points!! :) Considering this effect also effectively heals the caster, and that I recently added to the spell a full attack per round bonus (not applied to F/M), I've replaced 200% hit points with 2hp/level (up to a maximum of 40), which still means almost 200% for mages. To make it a less painful nerf, PnP TT would also considerably raise caster saving throw which involves fortidude, thus I've added a +4 to saves vs. death/poison.


Mantle Done
Grants immunity from +3 enchanted weapons or lower, and +3 bonus to all saves.


Project Image Done
PI now makes the caster invisible too, to prevent the wll known PI + Spell Trap exploit, and to allow this spell to be effectively used in the middle of a fight instead of being mainly used for cheesy tactics.


Ghost Form Done
I previously thought about adding Iron Form, but this seems a more interesting addition to me. I've already the bam for it (stolen to Wraith Form) and once decided its effects it's very easy for me to implement this spell. From an aesthetic point of view I've made the caster look like a spectral harpist, which is cool imo. More or less (trying to be as close as possible to PnP) the the spell should do the following:
- either set AC to something like 0 or grant +4 AC bonus (I've opted for the former)
- grant +4 to attack rolls (because the caster becomes incorporeal together with the equipment)
- caster shouldn't benefit from strength bonuses but it's difficult to achieve
- 50% physical damage resistance (as per shadow, wraith, ...)
- immunity to backstab, poison and disease effects
- immunity to spells which require a corporeal body to affect the target. I'd say: Grease, Entangle, Web, Polymorph Other, Flesh to Stone, Earthquake, Implosion. I'm open to suggestions for this list.

Both for conceptual and technical reasons Ghost Form cannot be casted together with Polymorph Self or Shapechange (imagine an incorporeal Iron Golem! ;) ). As always, the more detailed your feedback the quicker I'll be to decide how to do it. :(


Improved Mantle Done
Grants immunity from +4 enchanted weapons or lower, and +4 bonus to all saves.


Spell Shield Done
The original 5th level version is disabled (because it was bugged and we couldn't fix it, and also because I reached the limit of 24 spells per spell level due to the new Protection from Fire/Cold spells).

This is now a 8th level spell protection which works as a Greater Globe of Invulnerability, granting immunity to spells up to 5th level.


Absolute Immunity Done
This spell deserved to be much more powerful than PfMW and instead was even less effective because it didn't protected from +6 enchanted weapons (e.g. they do exist without IR and SR, as even Melf Minute Meteors were +6 enchanted!). I've increased its duration from 4 to 5 rounds, and it now confers "absolute immunity" to all weapons, +6 included.



Divine Spells


Armor of Faith Done
Grants 20% physical damage resistance starting at 1st level (instead pf 5% +5% every 5 levels), lasts 1 turn (instead of 3 rounds +1/lvl), casting time 1 (unchanged, make it very effective during combat).

At low levels, when attacks don't deal much damage, it granted a small 5% resistance; then it increased to a quite noticeable 25% at high levels, when attacks deal a lot of damage. A fixed % makes it scale in a more proportional way (linear instead of exponential).

After a quick test I'm quite convinced we should avoid elemental resistance because I cannot implement them as I'd like to. A "set %" would cause issues (e.g. they would lower the resistance of a character affected by Protection from Fire/Cold/Acid/Electricity spell), whereas an additional bonus would stack with any other source making it exploitable (e.g. Protection from Elements + AoF would allow the character to regenerate when attacked by any elemental attack).

Duration has been changed because at low levels it lasted only 4-5 rounds making it too unappealing for BG1, but considering its almost instant casting time and effectiveness (comparable with higher level spells) it's somewhat limited. The spell is intended to be used during combat (much like DUHM), and not as a long lasting buff.


Bless Done
I've just discovered Bless and Aid also add +1 to damage, thus I've updated the description, and Bless won't last 1 turn/level as I previously planned but 5 turns (as its power is actually twice as much as I thought).


Command Done
I've made it as many other level 1 spells such as Doom and Spook: "The target creature has a saving throw penalty of -1 (to save against this spell) for every two extra levels of the caster, to a maximum of -4 at 9th level".


In Bg2 version doesn't allow a save to creatures with less than 6HD
, which makes it quite effective in BG1, but it doesn't scale with caster level and thus it quickly become incredibly less effective. In BG1 it didn't allowed a save at all (with no HD check), and I've previously opted for something in the middle:
- creatures with equal or less HD than the caster are not allowed a save
- creatures with more HD than the caster are allowed a save (creatures with more than 20 Hit Dice/levels are always allowed to save against it)
Anyway, I have to test it a lot before implementing a no-save spell, thus I've not done it for V3.


Faerie Fire Done
Re-built to make it fully compatibile with SCS and RR. It now allow a save vs. spell to netage the effects.


Strength of Stone Done
I've made it slightly more similar to its PnP version rather than an exact copy of mage's 2nd level spell Strength. It's not castable on other creatures anymore, and for the duration of the spell the subject is immune to everything, magical and otherwise, that pushes him away (e.g. wing buffets, gusts of wind, telekinesis, etc.), but moves at reduced speed.


Aid Done
Adds 1d8 +1/level (up to 1d8+10) instead of only 1d8. Its duration has been increased to 1 turn/level (from 2 rounds/level) , matching most buffs and increasing the appeal to memorize at least once per day this spell.


Chant Done
Chant opcode wasn't affecting saves (it actually applies a luck bonus/penalty to hit and damage rolls), thus I've added them manually.


Draw Upon Divine Might (previously named Draw Upon Holy Might) Done
This spell needed to be slightly nerfed, and after many discussion we've opted for adding a fatigue effect to limit its effectiveness. "When the spell ends, the caster is fatigued for 5 rounds, receiving penalties of -2 to hit, damage, armor class and casting speed factor."

I've renamed it Draw Upon Divine Might because the spell can be cast by evil clerics.


Animate Dead Done
I've slightly modified its progression, at 12th level instead of 5 skeletons the spell casts two greater skeletons of 5HD which use a cool animation (similar to a skeleton warrior but less armored and somewhat shattered). Furthermore lesser skeletons now have 2HD instead of 3 for balance purposes, but from a gameplay point of view it only means they have 12hp less. I think this make the step from skeletons to skeleton warrior much more gradual.

Greater Skeleton (5 Hit Dice):
STR 16, DEX 14, CON -, INT -, WIS 10, CHA 1; AL Chaotic Evil
HP 60, AC 4, THAC0 16, Saving Throws 9/11/10/12/12
1 Attack Per Round, 2d6+2 Slashing Damage (Two-Handed Sword +1)

Special Qualities:
Immune to charm, confusion, hold, poison, sleep, stun, & death effects
Cold Resistance 100%
Slashing, Piercing Resistance 40%; Missile Resistance 60%


Break Enchantment (replaces Remove Curse) Done
"Upon casting this spell, the mage is able to free a victim from enchantments, and curses. The spell can reverse the effects of confusion and feeblemind, free a victim from magical sleep, and break the effects of a curse. Note that Break Enchantment cannot remove the curse from a cursed shield, weapon, or suit of armor, for example, but allows those afflicted with any such cursed item to get rid of it. Certain special curses may not be countered by this spell, or may be countered only by a caster of a certain level or through a particular ritual".


Animal Summoning I Done
I've added a feature to Dire Wolves, "Pack Hunter: gets +1 additional bonus to attack rolls for each allied wolf within 6 feet".


Divine Power (previously named Holy Power) Done
As I did with Tenser's Transformation, this spell now grants the caster extra attacks per rounds as a fighter of the same level (+1/2 at 7th level and another +1/2 at 13th). Multi and dual classed fighter-cleric and ranger-cleric don't gain additional attacks.

I've renamed it Divine Power (as 3rd edition/NWN) because the spell can be cast by evil clerics.


Poison Done
Unfortunately it can't work as it was supposed to work because 'x poison damage per round' opcode actually works as a '1 damage every x seconds'. Things such as 4 - 5 damage per round aren't achievable.

If it feels ok I've changed V2.9 Poison:

7th level: 2d6 + 2/round
9th level: 3d6 + 3/round
11th level: 4d6 + 4/round
13th level: 5d6 + 5/round
15th level: 6d6 + 6/round

Into this:

7th level: 4d4 + 1 every 4 seconds
9th level: 5d5 + 1 every 3 seconds
12th level: 6d6 + 1 every 2 seconds
15th level: 8d8 + 1 every 1 seconds


Magic Circle Against Evil (previously named Protection from Evil 10' radius) Done
It now works as an aura-like effect, always centered on the caster. Last 1 round/level, and each round every ally within 15 feet from the caster is affected by Protection from Evil for 1 round. The spell now uses a much better animation taken from another IE game (I think Refinements uses it for Holy Aura).


Chaotic Commands Done
I've changed this spell to make it work slightly better. It was granting immunity to sleep and stun opcodes, but it shouldn't for various reasons. Sleep opcode is also used as unconsciousness caused by many things (wing buffet, fighter's Smite HLA, Bigby's spells) and this spell shouldn't protect from these effects (Chatic Commands protecting from Earthquake unconsciuosness is hilarious). Some goes for stun, the spell may protect from Power Word: Stun if you think it's appropriate (is it?), but surely can't protect the recipient from many other stunnning effects (like Clestial Fury's on hit thunderclap).

Long story short, I've replace the immunity to sleep and stun with a few Protection from Spells effects.

We've decided to make it protect from mind flayer's Psionic Blast.


Righteous Fury (previously named Righteous Magic) Done
Within "Magic of Faerun" manual the spell which is most similar to Righteous Magic is Righteous Fury, a 3rd level Paladin spell. The spell channels the power of good and law (which reminds me this spell shouldn't be usable by evil aligned clerics just like good aligned ones shouldn't be able to use Animate Dead :) ), charging the caster with Positive Energy and granting the following bonuses:
* +2 bonus to STR and DEX, +2 to natural armor class
* +1d4 additional hit points per level (max 10d4)
* undead creatures who hit the caster suffer 1 point of damage

This is how I've implemented it:
* +4 STR, +2 to armor class
* +1hp/lvl (up to +20)
* "Maximum Damage on hit" (which is exploitable by cleric/thieves for a far from righteous uber-backstab) has been replaced by +1d6 magic damage on hit. I think it suits the Positive Energy concept (a la Holy Smite), and it can make this spell much more unique.

The only feature I've left out for now is ability to hurt undead when hit, though I like the concept. Should I implement it? Amd should demons be affected too?


Create Undead Done
Added to cleric spell list. Works as its arcane version.


Greater Restoration Done
Some time ago we discussed about it a lot, SR V1 had this spell work with a large AoE (as per ToB), but SCS use it as a single target spell (a la SoA and as per PnP). As a single target spell this spell was really unappealing imo, as it was a simple Heal + Lesse Restoration (with the fatigue effect too), thus I've tried to find a way to make it more appealing and I've recently noticed that in NWN this spell actually is incredibly more appealing! I cannot make it work exactly as per NWN, but I hope my solution is welcomed by most of you. Let me know.

"A Greater Restoration spell removes most temporary and permanent negative effects from the target creature. It reverses any previous life energy level drain of the creature by a force or monster. It can restore a polymorphed or petrified creature to its natural form, break the effects of a curse, negate any form of insanity such as berserk, confusion or feeblemind, and free the recipient from magical effects like fear, paralysis, sleep and stun. This potent spell also heals the target to full hit points, and cures any disease or poisons.

The casting of this spell is very draining on the priest, leaving him physically and mentally exhausted. For 5 rounds after the spell is cast, the priest will suffer a -2 penalty to hit, damage, armor class and casting speed factor.
"

Edited by Demivrgvs, 11 September 2009 - 02:40 PM.


#2 Ardanis

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 03:41 AM

Armor of Faith
I understand your reasoning, but Hardiness is an extraordinary ability, not a spell. Even if it was dispellable by Breach (or so I heard), which imo is a clear bug.

What can make it more problematic, are IR's items, that may now grant quite a bunch of phys resistance. But barbarians have it all the time on anyway, so why can't F/Cs have a temporary dispellable boost to their tanking power?

Draw Upon Holy Might
It's a tricky one. The duration is short, yet long enough at the same time, so the spell is somewhere in between PFMW and round/lvl spells.

Shortening it to 4 rounds would seem to balance it's power more or less.

PS Perhaps Hardiness should be slightly less effective for non-pure fighters, 30% instead of 40%? I know KR isn't done yet, and that's a separate mod, but what'd be the point in installing only a part of the Revisions family.

Edited by Ardanis, 31 May 2009 - 03:50 AM.

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Before you start breaking wall tiles with your bare fists, ask yourself first - do you truly need it?

#3 Aranthys

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 06:02 AM

Quote

Break Enchantment (replaces Remove Curse) Done
Yes ! Thanks a lot for implementing my suggestion :crazyeyes:

About Armor of Faith :
Yeah, i think you can implement the fixed % damage reduction.
At lower levels, it's not that usefull, and at higher levels it becomes a great spell.
Maybe you can make it something like :
Lasts 1 turn + 1rnd/2lvl (No change at level 20, slightly better at low levels. It's one of the main problem with all round-based spell durations : before level 5, they're almost useless.)
Grants 25% damage reduction from all sources.

When you think about it, all this spell does is giving your cleric 25% more HP, granting him the same resistance as a Fighter : 8*1.25 = 10

That's one of the reasons why i don't understand why you removed the elemental damage protection part of the spells.
Draw Upon Holy Might is powerfull, indeed, but keep in mind that it's a spell that's only really powerfull for Fighter / Clerics of level 12+

About Holy Power :
Aye, Divine Power sounds like a good name.
Granting additional attacks is a good idea, I've never bothered with the spell up to now.

#4 Icendoan

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 06:56 AM

Holy Power's 'small' feat is not so small, after all!

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#5 Ardanis

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 07:09 AM

Quote

Holy Power's 'small' feat is not so small, after all!
Mother of God...


How it's possible for a C/A to reach 1000/14~=70 damage per hit? I guess BBoD allows for 30 (?), some nifty trinkets and spells may provide 15-20 more. But where comes the rest from?
"Uguu~ Boku Ayu."

Before you start breaking wall tiles with your bare fists, ask yourself first - do you truly need it?

#6 Aranthys

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 07:19 AM

View PostArdanis, on May 31 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

Quote

Holy Power's 'small' feat is not so small, after all!
Mother of God...


How it's possible for a C/A to reach 1000/14~=70 damage per hit? I guess BBoD allows for 30 (?), some nifty trinkets and spells may provide 15-20 more. But where comes the rest from?
I would say
Staff of the RAM is 22 base damage max.
Holy power adds 1 damage per 3 level, so that's 18
25 strength adds 14

Total is 58 max damage. +1 damage bonus from assassin kit gives 59.
Still 11 damage short, and i don't think that strength bonus gets multiplied by a backstabbing character if I'm not mistaken.
Edit.: Forgot about Black Blade Of Disaster :crazyeyes:

Edited by Aranthys, 31 May 2009 - 07:20 AM.


#7 yarpen

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 07:34 AM

What about Familiars?

#8 Demivrgvs

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 07:35 AM

Armor of Faith

View PostAranthys, on May 31 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

Yeah, i think you can implement the fixed % damage reduction.
At lower levels, it's not that usefull, and at higher levels it becomes a great spell.
Maybe you can make it something like :
Lasts 1 turn + 1rnd/2lvl (No change at level 20, slightly better at low levels. It's one of the main problem with all round-based spell durations : before level 5, they're almost useless.)
Grants 25% damage reduction from all sources.

When you think about it, all this spell does is giving your cleric 25% more HP, granting him the same resistance as a Fighter : 8*1.25 = 10

That's one of the reasons why i don't understand why you removed the elemental damage protection part of the spells.
Let's take a cleric with 80hp and a fighter with 100hp, if they suffer 100 points of damage the latter would die while the former would remain alive with 5hp. To have the same resistance of a fighter it should grant 20% resistance and not 25%. Anyway the resistance granted by this spell would also stack with other sources making it even more effective (this culminates with the notorious exploit of rangers/fighters-clerics with AoF + Defender of Easthaven + Hardiness).

This is what I would do then:
- set the resistances to 20%, since 1st level;
- raising duration from 3 rounds +1/level to 1 turn +1 round/2 levels (even a fixed turn may be fine, but I suppose most of you prefer a longer duration);
- restoring elemental resistances, but non-stackable with Protection from X spells which already grant 100%. It seems most players don't like to limit it to physical resistance, and I can live with that.

View PostArdanis, on May 31 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

I understand your reasoning, but Hardiness is an extraordinary ability, not a spell. Even if it was dispellable by Breach (or so I heard), which imo is a clear bug.

What can make it more problematic, are IR's items, that may now grant quite a bunch of phys resistance. But barbarians have it all the time on anyway, so why can't F/Cs have a temporary dispellable boost to their tanking power?
If Hardiness is "breachable" I'll fix it within KR. IR shouldn't grant much more than it was possible in vanilla on this regard because I halved the most noticeable boost which was the cheesy Defender flail (20%), but you're right and I'll take this into account for IR V3 which should follow SR V3.

Draw Upon Holy Might

View PostArdanis, on May 31 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

It's a tricky one. The duration is short, yet long enough at the same time, so the spell is somewhere in between PFMW and round/lvl spells.

Shortening it to 4 rounds would seem to balance its power more or less.
You're right, and its shot casting time make it castable during combat too similarly to PfMW. I'd propose 6 rounds just to avoid being too drastical, hoping to please more players. This solution would also remove my biggest concern of this spell being used together with too many other buffs.

View PostAranthys, on May 31 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

Draw Upon Holy Might is powerfull, indeed, but keep in mind that it's a spell that's only really powerfull for Fighter / Clerics of level 12+
Yeah, but actually I don't like too much spells which end being more powerful if used by mult/dual calsses instead of pure spellcasters.

Break Enchantment

View PostAranthys, on May 31 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

Yes ! Thanks a lot for implementing my suggestion :crazyeyes:
You're welcome. I'm always glad when a player suggestion/request is implemented, especially if it's something I do like myself. :)

Holy Power

View PostAranthys, on May 31 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

Aye, Divine Power sounds like a good name.
Granting additional attacks is a good idea, I've never bothered with the spell up to now.
:)

View PostIcendoan, on May 31 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

Yeah, I mentioned this exploit myself...

Familiars

View Postyarpen, on May 31 2009, 05:34 PM, said:

What about Familiars?
Unfortunately I have some problems with them, and we "have to" release a more polished V3 because the unofficial V2.9 is out from too long. I'm not abandoning the project though.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 31 May 2009 - 07:41 AM.


#9 Ardanis

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 08:06 AM

Armor of Faith

Quote

- restoring elemental resistances, but non-stackable with Protection from X spells which already grant 100%. It seems most players don't like to limit it to physical resistance, and I can live with that.
Just for a record, I rather it not to have elemental defence. Though I can live with that too :crazyeyes:
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#10 Shaitan

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 03:45 PM

You do remember the 100% learn spell issue?

Cheers
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#11 Salk

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 09:24 PM

I am sensible to all your observations about the spells you mentioned in the opening topic.

All the suggested changes/tweaks seem to make sense to me, including the spell name's change.

Let's hope you can find someone helping you out with the familiar task. It'd be really a shame to leave it behind.

#12 yarpen

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 10:39 PM

I think that all of these cleric buff spells need something unique. All of them are strenght/power boost... so maybe something completly different. Some ideas:

Draw Upon Holy Might: short strenght (18/00) boost maybe with maximized damages. But lasts let's say 4 rounds?
Holy Power: increases cleric's physical stats, make him larger and stronger. Strenght and Constitution bonus, 20% more hit points, -2 penalty to AC from size (he's easier target). Lasts 8 rounds.
Righteous Magic: every attack deals additional 1D6 of magic damages and [here we need cool additional effect, maybe dispel magic or miscast magic?]. Or maybe better bonuses against chaotic characters? Lasts 2 rounds/level.

#13 Demivrgvs

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:38 AM

Armor of Faith

View PostArdanis, on May 31 2009, 06:06 PM, said:

Quote

- restoring elemental resistances, but non-stackable with Protection from X spells which already grant 100%. It seems most players don't like to limit it to physical resistance, and I can live with that.
Just for a record, I rather it not to have elemental defence. Though I can live with that too ;)
It doesn't surprise me anymore that we have almost identical opinions. :) I was thinking about restoring them only because I read here and there about players not liking my previous restriction, but I do prefer this spell to not have elemental resistances.

Edit: after a quick test I'm again convinced we should avoid elemental resistance because I cannot implement them as I'd like to. A "set %" would cause issues (e.g. they would lower the resistance of a character affected by Protection from Fire/Cold/Acid/Electricity spell), whereas an additional bonus would stack with any other source making it exploitable (e.g. Protection from Elements + AoF would allow the character to regenerate when attacked by any elemental attack).

Draw Upon Holy Might

View Postyarpen, on Jun 1 2009, 08:39 AM, said:

Short strenght (18/00) boost maybe with maximized damages. But lasts let's say 4 rounds?
I do agree with you about trying to make each of these spells more unique, but I'd like to avoid to shuffle the cards too much. Str 18/00 is already granted by Holy/Divine Power and it makes sense there imo as that spell is supposed to "transform" the priest into a warrior. Regarding Draw Upon Holy Might, I actually like its 3rd edition version which is called Divine Favor and applies a luck bonus to attack and damage rolls (up to +5 in 3.0ed then nerfed to +3 in 3.5ed but in these editions it's a 1st level spell). A +5 luck bonus to damage with most weapons means dealing maximum damage as a wepon which deals 1d6 would always deal 6. This solution would actually help me keeping it balanced as luck bonuses aren't "additional" bonuses, they simply maximize attack and damage rolls, and it would also make the spell outcome indipendent to character's initial stats (whereas the current spell works in many different ways depending on the priest initalia STR value). A 10 rounds duration in this case would be fine. AI never proposed this solution only because it's quite "drastical", but let me know if most of you wouldn't mind.

Holy Power

View Postyarpen, on Jun 1 2009, 08:39 AM, said:

Increases cleric's physical stats, make him larger and stronger. Strenght and Constitution bonus, 20% more hit points, -2 penalty to AC from size (he's easier target). Lasts 8 rounds.
This is exactly what Righteous Magic (which in PnP is called Righteous Might) should be. :crazyeyes: Divine Power imo is fine as a sort of divine Tenser's Transformation.

Intmod.2da

View PostShaitan, on Jun 1 2009, 01:45 AM, said:

You do remember the 100% learn spell issue?
Yeah. :)

Familiars

View PostSalk, on Jun 1 2009, 07:24 AM, said:

Let's hope you can find someone helping you out with the familiar task. It'd be really a shame to leave it behind.
Indeed. I'd only need someon to handle dialogs and relative triggers.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 01 June 2009 - 01:18 AM.


#14 Salk

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 01:55 AM

Draw Upon Holy Might

The latest suggestion is a revolution that in my opinion is not really needed in this case (wouldn't even be much in line with the name of the spell). A good tweak is to nerf the duration, as previously suggested.

Holy Power

I favour your intention. Including the name change.

Familiars

I would think that the kind of help you need is the one most people might be able to offer. Why not a public request on the General Modding section?

#15 Demivrgvs

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:47 AM

Draw Upon Holy Might

View PostSalk, on Jun 1 2009, 11:55 AM, said:

The latest suggestion is a revolution that in my opinion is not really needed in this case (wouldn't even be much in line with the name of the spell). A good tweak is to nerf the duration, as previously suggested.
Well, speaking of the name of the the spell, I don't like the "holy" part here either, considering it can be casted by a chaotic evil berserker-cleric who wouldn't seem so "holy". :crazyeyes: As I said myself, replacing it with Divine Favor would be indeed "revolutionary", and that is why I won't do it unless most of you vote for it.

Holy Power

Quote

I favour your intention. Including the name change.
Done. I'd say there's a general consensus on this one.

Familiars

Quote

I would think that the kind of help you need is the one most people might be able to offer. Why not a public request on the General Modding section?
You may be right, will do.




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