62 replies to this topic

[Demivrgvs]

Many players requested it a long time ago, and for some reason I postponed it a little, then my long absence from modding postponed it even more. I'm obviously still open to any suggestion, thus feel free to discuss it in this topic and post your opinions.

The goal of this revised table is to have a progression which is neither too nerfed (vanilla's one) nor too overpowered (as with True Grandmastery). I've also tried to make each and every proficiency point more important, thus nerfing the second one (specialization) which was granting way too much compared to the others (it previously granted +1 hit, +2 dmg. +1/2 apr), and in the process I've made true fighters more appealing compared to other warriors (paladins and rangers).

Comparing Grandmastery Tweaks

		Vanilla				True				Revised
Stars	+Hit	+Dmg	APR		+Hit	+Dmg	APR		+Hit	+Dmg	APR
*	0	0	1		0	0	1		0	0	1
**	1	2	3/2		1	2	3/2		1	2	1
***	2	2	3/2		3	3	3/2		2	2	3/2
****	2	3	3/2		3	4	3/2		3	4	3/2
*****	2	4	3/2		3	5	5/2		3	5	2

This mini-mod can be installed anytime in an ongoing game by simply copying its files into the override folder.

Attached Files

•  revised_grandmastery.rar   356bytes   312 downloads

Edited by Mike1072, 06 December 2010 - 04:50 PM.

[yarpen]

That's great solution for revising fighters! Nice.

[Demivrgvs]

yarpen, on May 6 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

That's great solution for revising fighters! Nice.

Thanks, I'm glad a few people are trying this out. My only "complain" at the moment is that this tweak is actually intended to be used within Kit Revision. The most noticeable thing (the one thing that many players can probably dislike) is that this tweak "nerfs" paladins and rangers, and while the formers are still incredibly good classes (the Inquisitor kit rules imo) rangers were already quite weak classes in vanilla (except the Archer and to a lesser extent the Stalker).

If some players don't mind mini-mods like this, I can probably work on and release a few revised kits/classes on their own (as a full and patching Kit Revision mod would require a lot more time/work for me). Let me know if you are interested.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 07 May 2009 - 04:10 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Dirty Uncle Bertie, on May 7 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

I'd certainly take a look at any other mini mods you propose/release, although I'd really like to see them come with a basic readme in future, if it's not too much trouble.

Well, you put the files from the extracted archive to the override folder inside your game folder, so that it might override any currently mod installed tables... and that's it, an instant and unrevisable installation.

[Demivrgvs]

Jarno Mikkola, on May 7 2009, 06:44 PM, said:

Dirty Uncle Bertie, on May 7 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

I'd certainly take a look at any other mini mods you propose/release, although I'd really like to see them come with a basic readme in future, if it's not too much trouble.

Well, you put the files from the extracted archive to the override folder inside your game folder, so that it might override any currently mod installed tables... and that's it, an instant and unrevisable installation.

Exactly! Sorry, it's such a tiny little mod that an .exe and a readme seemed unnecessary. Actually it wouldn't take me too much to re-packing it with an .exe if needed.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 07 May 2009 - 09:01 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

D. U. Bertie, on May 8 2009, 12:20 AM, said:

If it weren't for this topic I'd have no idea what the mod does. You never know, the mod may get linked to from somewhere else, or emailed around, and people wouldn't know to look here for instructions. Or what about if this topic got deleted one day?

You could do this... And what comes for the linking etc. well, if you have friends that do email you and you trust them enough to open their send files, you should have some idea of what they contain, or at least how to find out... and how to use them. After all, the internet is dangerous place and there are viruses, biological and electological. Yeah, I invented a new word.
(Edit, ups, I should have used the source coding ... well what ever, you should still get the idea.)

Don't readme said:

This mod makes the warrior classes totally useless as it makes the mages the ultimate killers as their Thac0 is set far better than any fighters.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 07 May 2009 - 11:06 PM.

[Dakk]

Jarno Mikkola, on May 8 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

Don't readme said:

This mod makes the warrior classes totally useless as it makes the mages the ultimate killers as their Thac0 is set far better than any fighters.

Sorry, what?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Dakk, on May 8 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

Jarno Mikkola, on May 8 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

Don't readme

Sorry, what?

I know the readmes are usually invisible, but how is the command not to read something invisible? -Got you good.

[Demivrgvs]

Dakk, on May 8 2009, 12:32 PM, said:

Jarno Mikkola, on May 8 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

Don't readme said:

This mod makes the warrior classes totally useless as it makes the mages the ultimate killers as their Thac0 is set far better than any fighters.

Sorry, what?

He wasn't talking about any mod in particular if you were worrying about that, I suppose he was just joking.

[yarpen]

Quote

If some players don't mind mini-mods like this, I can probably work on and release a few revised kits/classes on their own (as a full and patching Kit Revision mod would require a lot more time/work for me). Let me know if you are interested.

Yeah!

[Dakk]

Jarno Mikkola, on May 8 2009, 01:13 PM, said:

know the readmes are usually invisible, but how is the command not to read something invisible? -Got you good.

That's just stupid...

@Demivrgvs:
What version of Vanilla, True and your Revised is closest to P&P (in 2 or 3.5)?

[Demivrgvs]

Dakk, on May 8 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

What version of Vanilla, True and your Revised is closest to P&P (in 2 or 3.5)?

In 2nd edition Grandmastery (+++++) granted +3 hit, +5 damage, and +1apr:
- with the Revised table you get one point less of damage which isn't a big difference imo
- with True Grandmastery you get half an attack more than PnP, which is quite noticeable imo, especially at lower levels and then again later on when the uber-powerful items make a big difference if they hit more often in less time

In 2nd edition paladins and rangers aren't able to become specialized (++) in a weapon, but in some accessory manual I they were allowed a sort of lesser proficiency. With that in mind I revised the second and third proficiency point progression.

In 3rd edition the whole system is really different, and proficiency points are replaced by feats. Anyway, only fighters can specialize in 3rd edition (obtaining +2 bonus to damage), and multiple feats grant them up to +2 hit, +4 damage.

[Salk]

I like your revised table but personally I think that the GrandMastery should give one more point of damage (just list as PnP) because it should really be the ultimate specialization.


The skill improvement between ** and *** in your table is equal to that between **** and *****, which I think is not right because of what I said above.

Edited by Salk, 08 May 2009 - 09:43 PM.