363 replies to this topic

[Demivrgvs]

Let's try to gather here all the things we've discussed and decided to do in these last few months...

Arcane Spells

Chromatic Orb Done
I partially fixed an issue with multiple orbs being fired. Damage from multiple orbs was stacking, making this spell incredibly powerful at low levels. Furthermore, I've refined it to tie the damage to caster's level, as 1d8 was really too much at low levels (at 1st lvl this spell dealt more damage than Magic Missile plus the white color's effect) and slightly too little at high levels. Thus, this is how it currently look like:

"The sphere inflicts magic damage, along with different effects depending on its color. The sphere's damage depend on the caster level, as well as the variety of colors. The orb is occasionally even multicolored, causing multiple effects. The victim can save vs. spell against all special effects but gets no save against the damage. All special effects last for 5 rounds.

1st level: 1d3 damage - White - Light (Saving Throws: -4)
2nd level: 1d4 damage - Aquamarine - Magnetism (AC: -4)
4th level: 1d6 damage - Red - Pain (-1 to Strength, and Dexterity)
6th level: 1d8 damage - Green - Poison (2hp/round)
8th level: 1d10 damage - Yellow - Blindness
10th level: 2d6 damage - Violet - Slow
12th level: 2d8 damage - Blue - Paralysis"

Color Spray Done
It had to be nerfed, the PnP version is really too effective compared to most level 1 spells. Thus I've replaced "unconsciousness" with "confusion".

Larloch's Minor Drain Done
I've slightly improved it at player's request. "With this spell, the wizard drains the life force from a target and adds it to his own. The target creature suffers 2 points of damage, while the mage gains 2 hit points. For every three levels of the caster the draining is augmented by 2 points (up to a miximum of 10 points at 12th level). If the mage goes over his maximum hit point total with this spell, he loses it after 1 turn".

Knock Done
It can affects 1 object or creature. On objects works as before. On a creature it inflicts 2D6 points of crushing damage (no save) and knockback (10 feet) unconscious for 1 round (save vs. spell at -1 negates).

Detect Invisibility Done
Some of you complained about its too long casting time, others that it makes True Seeing too less appealing. Thus I've reduced casting time from 5 to 2 and duration from 1 turn to 5 rounds.

Ray of Enfeeblement Done
The victim suffers -3 penalty to attack and damage rolls, and movement speed is reduced by 50%, but a successful save vs. spell at -1 negates all the effects.

Clairvoyance Done
It was another useless Divination spell imo, thus I've drastically changed it into: "This spell grants an unnatural perception of things to come. Once clairvoyance is cast, the caster receives instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm. He is never surprised and cannot be backstabbed. In addition, the spell gives a general idea of what action might be taken to best protect oneself and grants a +2 insight bonus to AC and saves vs. breath".

Fire Shields Done
The damage inflicted now improves with caster levels: "1d6 points of fire/cold damage plus one for every two levels of the caster (up to a maximum of 1d6+10)". Thus starts at 1d6+3 (which is almost as vanilla's fixed 1d8+2), and improves quite slowly. I've decided to not make it deal as much damage as per 3rd edition (which is 1d6+15) because these two shields can stack in BG (whereas they can't in 3rd edition PnP), and 2d6+20 points of damage seems already a quite effective.

Flame Arrow Done
I'm extremely proud of this spell now, as its description mentioning multiple arrows always bugged me! The new description look like this: "This spell enables the caster to hurl flaming arrows at his enemies. The caster receives one arrow for every four experience levels (up to a maximum of five arrows at level 20), and each arrow inflicts 4d6 points of fire damage. Only half of the fire damage is inflicted if the creature struck saves vs. breath at -2. Upon completion of the spell, the first arrow will streak towards the creature targeted by the wizard, while additional arrows will randomly target opponents within range".

Enchanted Weapons Done
This spell will fill your override folder with tons of files because now it allows to create any type of weapon (I've added ranged weapons too), and each weapon requires both a .spl file and a .itm one. I assure you it wasn't fun to work on this spell. This spell also allows to create +3 ammos now (arrows, bolts and bullets).

Otiluke Resilient Sphere Done
Allies are affected even if they successfully save. Various fixes.

Create Undead Done
"Replaces" Animate Dead, and creates Ghasts instead of Skeletons.

Polymorph Other Done
A rebalancing refinement was necessary because this spell is an almost inst-kill one.

Target's saving throw is based on its level:
- creatures with less than 8 HD/level save at -3 penalty (as all creatures do in V2)
- creatures with "8 < HD/level < 15" save at no penalty/bonus
- creatures with more than 15 HD/levels save at +3 bonus (all creatures save at +2 bonus in vanilla)

Shadow Door Done
I've added its PnP's feature, an AoE maze-like effect centered on the caster. "By means of this spell, the wizard creates the illusion of a door. The illusion also permits the wizard to appear to step through this "door" and disappear. In reality he has darted aside and can flee, totally invisible, for the spell duration. Opponents within 5 feet from the caster must save vs. spell at -4 or be fooled to follow the caster inside the door, and be trapped in a dimensional room for up to 4 rounds. Creatures with exceptional intelligence may escape the illusion faster, while creatures who can see through illusions (e.g. dragons, liches, demons), or are under the effects of a True Seeing spell, are unaffected."

Spell Shield Done
"This spell grants extraordinary protection from spells and spell-like effects for a limited amount of time. Every time a saving throw is required to reduce or negate an effect the caster will automatically succeed the save, and whether or not a save is allowed, every source of magical damage inflicts only half damage to the caster. Due to the nature of this spell and its short duration it is mainly used to buy the wizard a few rounds in the thick of a magical duel. This effect lasts for the duration of the spell (5 rounds) or until dispelled."

Sunfire Done
As anticipated, it doesn't make the caster immune to fire for 3 seconds anymore, and the spell won't cause the caster to display the damaged/hit animation. I would have liked to make it not bypass magic resistance, you're lucky it can't be done!

Protection from Magic Energy Done
As I've done for Protection from Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire I've added full protection from spells which deal magic damage like Holy Smite, Unholy Blight, Bolt of Glory, Magic Missile, Minor Drain, Skull Trap, Vampiric Touch, Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting. This should make this spell quite appealing imo.

Tenser's Transformation Done
This is something many of you asked for, and I've fortunately managed to do it! The caster gets additional attacks per round as a fighter of the same level (+1/2 at 7th and +1 at 13th). Fighter/mages won't gain additional attacks per round.

Disintegrate Done
Upon casting this spell at another creature a thin green ray is shot out. Upon contact, the creature must make a saving throw vs. spell at -5 or suffer 2d6 points of magic damage per caster level (to a maximum of 40d6). A creature that makes a successful save is partially affected, taking only 5d6 points of damage. A disintegrated creature's equipment is unaffected.

Control Undead Done
If the undead have 5 or more Hit Dice/levels less than the caster then there is no saving throw allowed, else a save vs. spell at -6 is allowed to negate the effect.

Delayed Blast Fireball Done
I'm very convinced its damage output potential has to be raised from a maximum of 15D6 at 15th level to 20D6 at 20th.

Finger of Death Done
I've added the +1damage/level on a successful save as the divine version.

Mordenkainen's Sword Done
I've added a custom script to make it 'not turn hostile when hit' and to make the magical sword dispellable (the AI shouldn't dispel its own swords because it uses remove magic). I've also slightly improved how its resistances are handled, adding all the immunities to damage-dealing spells as per Protection from Fire/Cold/Acid/Electricity. Furthermore the sword is now immune to ADHW, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, and vorpal effects.

Protection from the Elements Done
As I've done for Protection from Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire I've added full protection from spells which deal elemental damage. It pratically is those 4 spells in one, but its effects last half as much.

Ruby Ray of Reversal (not for V3)
It does a few more things in PnP:
- any trap targeted by it is sprung
- unlock just like Knock spell
- a polymorphed creature is forced to its normal state (may be doable, casting a Natural Form spell on target)
- reverse a Flesh to Stone spell (it would make Stone to Flesh even more pointless than now)
- destroy webs, grease and entangle (quite hard to implement)
Let me know if you think some of these things are worth to be worked on.

Sphere of Chaos Done
I've made it party friendly. Furthermore, due to the effects it now uses I've made it belong to two schools, the original Alteration one, plus Enchantment.

"This spell allows the caster to create a sphere of chaotic magic. All enemies within the area affected by the casting of this spell must make a saving throw vs. spells at -6 for every round that they remain in the sphere, and if the save is failed one of the following random effects occurs: the target goes berserk, is confused, is paralyzed, is rendered unconscious, flees in panic, or is affected by a wilde surge."

Summon Djinni/Efreeti Done
I've re-written the description to better describe the new features of the genies: immunity to Death Spell, gaseous form ability, no casting time, and no 'turn hostile when hit'. A few undocumented changes are small improvements like making the djinni immune to spells which shouldn't affect flying creatures (e.g. Entangle, Grease, Earthquake) and making the Efreeti completely immune to fire based spells as per Protection from Fire.
"With this spell, the conjurer can cajole a djinni/efreeti, a massive genie with powerful abilities, to leave the Elemental Plane of Air/Fire and enter the Prime Material Plane. The gated genie is immune to Death Spell and can use several spell-like abilities as 10th level caster, which it can cast instantly. Once per day a djinni/efreeti can turn into gaseous form, becoming immune to almost all forms of damage for a short time. The genie will generally use this ability when badly injured, to either regenerate before attacking again, or to leave the battlefield avoiding further damage. The djinni/efreeti will serve for the duration indicated above, attacking the enemies of the conjurer until the duration of the spell runs out".
The two creatures retain the same spells they had in V2, but their statistics are slightly changed. The two most noticeable things are the additional hit dice which makes them 10HD creatures (this improves their caster level too), and djinni's additional attack per round. In the future I'd like to add djinni's whirlwind ability too, which would be extremely fun imo. I sincerely hope genies will finally be worth a 7th level slot this time around.

Summon Nishruu/Hakeashar (not for V3)
I wanted to add a "dispelling aura" to them, do you agree?

Incendiary Cloud Done
I've replaced the blindness effect (which is handled quite badly by the AI and completely nullify ranged and spellcasting creatures) with very similar effects which also are more customizable. Creature within the area still have limited sight (I've opted for something 10' radius), and suffer -4 penalty to attack rolls and armor class. The spell doesn't affect fire elementals, fire giants, flaming skulls and salamanders.

Protection from Energy Done
This 8th level spell is now incredibly effective as I've replaced the "+75%" resistance (which was "exploitable to reach 127%) with "set 100%", and added all the improvements the respective protection spells have gained in V3. I've left its duration to 2 rounds/level, which is quite less than 1 turn/level used by the 5th and 6th level version of protection spells.

Symbol of Death/Stunning/Weakness Done
They won't be triggered by caster's allies anymore nor harm caster and companions.

Bigby's Crushing Hand Done
I've replaced "hold creature 2" with "stun" which should be able to affect a few more creatures.

Freedom Done
"When this spell is cast, all friendly creatures in the area are freed from spells and effects that restrict their movement or bind their minds. These effects include charm, confusion, domination, entangle, feeblemind, hold, paralysis, petrification, sleep, slow, stunning, and web. This spell will also cancel the effects of the spell Maze and return any characters trapped in the labyrinth of planes. If it is cast in an area where a creature was sealed with an Imprisonment spell, it will instantly free him and he will reappear exactly where he was standing when he was imprisoned. Affected creatures are also protected from all these spells and effects for the duration of the spell (5 turns)." I guess the improvements are pretty obvious.

Meteor Swarm Done
I've changed it to allow a save to reduce damage to half, but damage output now is 40D4! It deserves imo to be the most damaging spell in the game, and the new animation (which looks like a bombardement of minute meteors) makes tons of small dices of damage quite appropriate.

Energy Drain Done
The description probably needs some refinements: "The casting of this spell opens a channel between the caster's plane and the Negative Energy plane. The caster of the spell acts as a conduit between the two planes, sucking life from a living creature and transferring it to the Negative Energy plane, draining him of 4 levels of experience. The target of this spell loses levels, Hit Dice, hit points, and abilities permanently. These levels can only be restored by a priest's restoration spell. The life force drained by the caster temporarily increases his own, granting him additional 20 hit points, +4 bonus to attack rolls, +4 bonus to saves, and +20% on every skill. These effects last for 1 turn. The target's magic resistance, if any, does not affect this spell."

Dragon's Breath Done
Damage nerfed from 20d10 to 20d6, but the added- 6 penalty to save allows full damage and knockback effect to take place much more often. Unconsciousness last 6 seconds instead of 2.

Comet Done
Deals 10d10 crushing damage with no save, bypasses magic resistance (most players requested it), and knocks unconscious for 3 rounds. It has become more effective than Dragon's Breath imo, and unfortunately I cannot make it affect only 20' radius as it should (its projectile is hardcoded ), thus I've increased its casting time to 1 full round.

Contingency & Chain Contingecy Done
These spells now belongs to the Universal school, and scroll have been changed to reflect this. I've also changed them to not ignore game pauses anymore. I'm also going to test if they can be made not-castable during combat.

Power Word Silence/Blind/Stun/Kill Done
All PW spells now belongs to the Enchantment school, and scroll have been changed to reflect this. There was not a single spell belonging to the Enchantment school at 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th level! In 3rd edition all Power Words belong to Enchantment School instead of Conjuration, and I think it's both appropriate and very useful to "rebalance" the schools.

Spell Sequencers/Triggers Done
These spells now belongs to the Universal school, and scroll have been changed to reflect this. I'm also going to test if they can be made not-castable during combat.

(Limited) Wish Done
These spells now belongs to the Universal school, and scroll have been changed to reflect this.

Divine Spells

Doom Done
Target is allowed a save vs. spell to avoid the effects, though with a -1 penalty for every other two caster's level (up to -4 at 9th level).

Shillelagh Done
As previously proposed I've made its enchantment level increase with caster level. Starts at +1 and improves every 6 levels up to +3 at 12th level. Deals crushing damage (it's an actual weapon created via Alteration spell), allow strength bonuses.

Faerie Fire Done
Added to druid's 1st level spells. Pratically a lesser Glitterdust, with even smaller AoE (5 feet raadius), and -2 AC instead of blindness.

Strength of Stone Done
Added to druid's 1st level spells. As 2nd level wizard's Strentgh, though we may add something to it in the feature to slightly differentiate it (e.g. reduced movement rate).

Sunscorch Done
Added to druid's 1st level spells. As per Divine Remix.

Spiritual Hammer Done
As previously proposed I've made its enchantment level increase with caster level. Starts at +1 and improves every 5 levels up to +5 at 20th level. Deals crushing damage, can hit targets with medium range, doesn't allow strength bonuses.

Call Lightning Done
A very small change: the spell now lasts 1 round every 3 levels up to 5 rounds at 15th level, instead of 1 round +1/4 levels up to 5 rounds at 16th.

Miscast Magic Done
I've done something similar to what Six suggested, the spell now last 5 rounds, and each round a save is allowed to avoid the wild surge effect.

Baleful Polymorph Done
A rebalancing refinement was necessary because this spell is an almost inst-kill one.

Target's saving throw is based on its level:
- creatures with less than 8 HD/level save at -4 penalty (as all creatures do in V2)
- creatures with "8 < HD/level < 15" save at no penalty/bonus
- creatures with more than 15 HD/levels save at +2 bonus (all creatures do in vanilla)

Summon Insect Done
For the duration of the spell (6 rounds), the target fights with a -2 penalty to attack rolls and armor class. In addition, each round, the victim suffers 2d3 points of damage from insect bites, has a 100% chance of spell failure, and must make a saving throw vs. death at +2 or run away in fear. If a successful save vs. breath at -2 is made, the target manages to avoid most of the swarm, reducing damage from bites by half and completely negating the spell failure penalty.

Poison Done
"The damage dealt by the poison depends upon the level of the wizard casting the spell.

7th level: 2d6 + 2/round
9th level: 3d6 + 3/round
11th level: 4d6 + 4/round
13th level: 5d6 + 5/round
15th level: 6d6 + 6/round

Creatures not immune to poison cannot avoid the initial damage, but a successful save vs. poison at -3 negates the following ongoing damage."

Harper's Call Done
Fixed and added to SR spells for consistency.

Insect Plague Done
For the duration of the spell (6 rounds), those affected (Target, and enemies within 30') fight with a -2 penalty to attack rolls and armor class. In addition, each round, the victims suffer 2d3 points of damage from insect bites, have a 100% chance of spell failure, and must make saving throws vs. death or run away in fear. If a successful save vs. breath at -4 is made, the target manages to avoid most of the swarm, reducing damage from bites by half and completely negating the spell failure penalty.

Protection from Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire Done
These four spells have been added to both clerics and druids as 5th level spells, while the only two previously existing ones (Prot. vs. Fire at 3rd and Prot. vs. Lightning at 4th) have been disabled. They now grant complete protection from many elemental based spells of the respective type, which means those spells won't cause a "damage animation" on the protected creature anymore. Furthermore side effects caused by these spells (e.g. slowness caused by Ice Storm and Acid Fog, Blindness caused by Incendiary Cloud) won't affect the recipient.

Control Undead Done
Added to cleric's spell selection as a 6th level spell. If the undead have 5 or more Hit Dice/levels less than the caster then there is no saving throw allowed, else a save vs. spell at -5 is allowed to negate the effect.

Blade Barrier Done
I've already done and implemented this change for balance purposes: the barrier now hits once every 3 seconds (instead of each second like in V2) inflicting 3d6 points of damage (instead of 1d6). It still hits twice as often as vanilla's version, but it should be less overpowering, and it also still has a quite noticeable advantage over vanilla which is being party-friendly (AI's version already was).

Dolorous Decay Done
"This spell affects a single living creature. Dolorous Decay is a rotting and withering of the body that spreads throughout the afflicted creature quickly. The disease will instantly cause a permanent -1 penalty to strength, dexterity, and constitution. If the target fails a saving throw vs. poison at -5, the dacay will inflict 1 point of damage per second, until a total of 60 hit points of damage are inflicted, and another point of damage to each physical attribute every 5 rounds. The afflicted creature will also be slowed for the duration of the decay, and ability scores lost with this spell can only be restored with a Cure Disease, a Heal or a Greater Restoration spell."

False Dawn Done
"By drawing on the power of the sun, this spell causes the caster's body to emanate a bright light that extends 15 feet in all directions. Each round, opponents within the area must save vs. spell at -5 or be blinded for 1 round. Undead creatures take 2d6 points of damage for each round they are exposed to the False Dawn". Casting time is a full round, duration is 1 turn, and it won't bypass magic resistance anymore.

Physical Mirror Done
I've extended the range of missiles affected by the spell: "This spell does not convey any protection from magical attacks such as Fireballs, Lightning Bolts or Magic Missiles, but magically created missiles such as Melf's Acid Arrows, Melf's Minute Meteors, and Flame Arrows will be reflected back."

Sol's Searing Orb Done
I've done a lot of work for this spell (I had to create 9 new .itm files and several .eff files) but I'm quite satisfied with the achievement, especially the new animation. Instead of the old/classic small fire explosion on hit the orb now produces a flash of light which I've been able to obtain thanks to Galactygon work on animations. From the spell's description: "When it hits, the gem bursts with a brilliant, searing flash that causes 1d6 points of fire damage for every level of the caster (up to a maximum of 20d6) and blinds for 6 rounds. The victim is allowed a saving throw vs. vs. breath at -5 penalty. If successful, only half damage is sustained and the target is not blinded. Undead creatures suffer double damage." The orb affects 1 creature, is considered to be of +6 enchantment, and the caster has +4 bonus on attack rolls to hit the target.

Creeping Doom Done
For the duration of the spell (6 rounds), those affected (Target, and enemies within 30') fight with a -2 penalty to attack rolls and armor class. In addition, each round, the victims suffer 2d6 points of damage from insect bites, have a 100% chance of spell failure, and must make saving throws vs. death at -2 or run away in fear. If a successful save vs. breath at -6 is made, the target manages to avoid most of the swarm, reducing damage from bites by half and completely negating the spell failure penalty.

Fire Storm Done
In PnP the AoE of this spell is shapeable ("Two 10-ft. cubes per level"), making it extremely more useful (e.g. 10' around caster can be left untouched to protect him and his allies), and I've managed to implement it. Each round a 10' radius area centered on the caster won't be affected by the spell. I've also added an .eff file to make sure Fire Elementals won't suffer "damage animation" from this spell. It now allows a save to halve the damage. For a 7th level spell 8d8+80 points of damage was really too much, especially considering its new "semi-friendly" AoE.

Nature's Beauty Done
The permanent blindness was overpowered, and it ruined most AI's scripts, not to mention Sunray already grants a mass blindeness spell much more balanced. This spell probably need further adjustments and improvements (e.g. adding a stunning effect; perhaps making creatures immune to consecutive casting of this spell).
"When this spell is cast, the caster appears to undergo a remarkable transformation. The caster becomes the very ideal of beauty, for a male, this is usually a nymph or a dryad, for a female, the image varies. Anyone viewing the illusion must save vs. spell at -6 penalty or be charmed for 10 rounds. The transformation is instantaneous, but lasts only seconds, affecting those in the area but excluding fellow party members.

If the caster harms, or attempts to harm, the charmed creature by some overt action, or if a Dispel Magic spell is successfully cast upon the charmed creature, the charm spell is broken. If two or more charm effects simultaneously affect a creature, the most recent charm takes precedence." The area of effect has been increased to 30 feet radius.

Sunray Done
I've slightly revised the spell: "When this spell is cast, it causes a ray of sunlight to beam down upon the caster and a globe of searing radiance to explode in a 30' radius. All hostile creatures in the area of effect are blinded for 10 rounds and take 6d6 points of damage. An undead creature caught within the sunburst takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (up to a maximum of 20d6). A successful save vs. spell at -6 penalty negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fail its save vs. death".
It's more effective against non-undead (+3d6 damage, better save penalty), but it's less overpowered against undead (it now allows a save to halve the damage). Furthermore only creatures specifically vulnerable to light (shadows, specters, vampires, and wraith) are affected by the instant death effect.

Symbol of Death/Stunning/Weakness Done
They won't be triggered by caster's allies anymore nor harm caster and companions.

Globe of Blades Done
I've already done and implemented this change for balance purposes: the barrier now hits once every 2 seconds (instead of each second like in V2) inflicting 2d10 points of damage (instead of 1d10).

Implosion Done
"This fearsome spell creates a destructive resonance in a corporeal creature's body, causing it to collapse in on itself, and crushing it to death. The spell does 20d8 points of crushing damage, and holds the target for 1 round. The victim can save vs. death at -6 penalty to halve the damage". The list of changes is quite long:
- 'save vs. spell at no penalty' replaced with 'save vs. death at -6'
- 20d8 crushing damage instead of 10d10 crushing + 10d10 fire damage
- casting time from 5 to 7
- doesn't bypass magic resistance anymore
- 'hold creature' replaced with 'hold creature 2' which affects a lot more creatures (undead included)
- doesn't affect incorporeal creatures
- much more appropriate animation

Storm of Vengeance Done
Slightly revised as we discussed. "Each round, the victims suffer 2d6 points of electrical damage, and 2d6 points of acid damage (save vs. breath at -6 for half damage). They also have a chance to be poisoned each round (save vs. death at -6 or suffer 2 points of damage per second for one round)".

NPC's Innate Abilities

Symbol of Death/Stunning/Weakness Done
They won't be triggered by caster's allies anymore nor harm caster and companions.

Demilich Howl Done
It now matches SR's Wail of the Banshee. I'll probably limit its range to 20 feet as per PnP sooner or later.

Demilich Soul Trap Done
Slightly changed to be more "friendly", it's obviously based upon PnP's Trap the Soul. Now uses SR's "tweaked" Imprisonment, but the "maze" effect actually allows a save vs. spell at -6 to be avoided. Anyway the spell will also drain 4 levels even with a successful save.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 07 August 2009 - 02:52 AM.

[Icendoan]

I like that Wail of the Banshee thing, and Physical Mirror should reflect all conjured/solid projectiles. Conjuring A flame arrow, it will reflect, but not Magic Missiles.

Icen

[Jarno Mikkola]

Demivrgvs, on Nov 26 2008, 08:38 PM, said:

1. Summon Djinni/Efreeti: should we remove the "turn hostile if damaged by friendly fire" feature?
2. Doom: allow a save, though scalable up to -4 penalty or -6. It's currently too powerful for a level 1 spell imo.
3. Summon Shadow: more diversified creatures if possible.
4. Spell Sequencer/Contingencies: I'll either prevent them from being re-casted during a fight, or raise their casting time.

1. Why not replace the whole(both)thing with Summon Elemental Spirit, as it could be either Djinni(water), Efreeti(Fire) or Stone Golem(Earth) or even something more bizarre like Invisible Stalker(Air)... you still need to keep the original spells, just replace the scrolls so the enemies can cast the old spell while the player casts the new spell.
2. You would make the spell totally useless.
3. You could make the creatures grow up in power like the Animate Dead...
4. Or if you wish, you could always put the irresistible hold effect for two rounds after casting.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 26 November 2008 - 11:34 AM.

[Salk]

I can't see the Find Familiar revision in the list above (aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!! - It should be the main thing!!) and neither the suggestion of making the Flesh to Stone spell not end the game when cast on <charname> with someone else in the party.

Edited by Salk, 26 November 2008 - 11:28 AM.

[Demivrgvs]

Jarno Mikkola, on Nov 26 2008, 08:12 PM, said:

Demivrgvs, on Nov 26 2008, 08:38 PM, said:

1. Summon Djinni/Efreeti: should we remove the "turn hostile if damaged by friendly fire" feature?
2. Doom: allow a save, though scalable up to -4 penalty or -6. It's currently too powerful for a level 1 spell imo.
3. Summon Shadow: more diversified creatures if possible.
4. Spell Sequencer/Contingencies: I'll either prevent them from being re-casted during a fight, or raise their casting time.

1. Why not replace the whole(both)thing with Summon Elemental Spirit, as it could be either Djinni(water), Efreeti(Fire) or Stone Golem(Earth) or even something more bizarre like Invisible Stalker(Air)... you still need to keep the original spells, just replace the scrolls so the enemies can cast the old spell while the player casts the new spell.
2. You would make the spell totally useless.
3. You could make the creatures grow up in power like the Animate Dead...
4. Or if you wish, you could always put the irresistible hold effect for two rounds after casting.

1. Djinn (Air) have nothing to do with water element, and golems are far from being akin to them, Dao (Earth) are. Anyway I'm not going to add creatures to these two spells.
2. Why? It does allow a save on IWD, NWN, and PnP.
3. Something like that.
4. I prefer to be less "intrusive".

Salk, on Nov 26 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

I can't see the Find Familiar revision in the list above (aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!! - It should be the main thing!!) and neither the suggestion of making the Flesh to Stone spell not end the game when cast on <charname> with someone else in the party.

Added.

[Salk]

Demivrgvs,

here comes some comments to your suggestions:

ARCANE

Find Familiar: I think that our discussion has already put the basis for developing the new spell.

Directly from Rabain's modification:

* Familiars should have a portrait and a sound set

* Familairs will automatically jump back into the backpack when their lives is in danger (condition HP <25%)

* Familiars should be extended to 9 since there are 9 alignments. Rabain added a spider, setting it to CN and replacing the cat which in its turn moves to CG. Fairy dragon has been moved from CG to NG. I would welcome Demi's solution: Spider to TN and Rabbit to CG.

* Familiars will heal and memorise their known spells, providing you rest before taking them out again. Spells:

Cat - Blur, Friends
Mephit - Blur, Glitterdust, Glass dust
Faerie Dragon - Blur, Mirror image, Invis 10ft radius
Ferret - Blur, Blindness
Imp - Blur, Polymorph self
Quasit - Blur, Horror, Color spray
Rabbit - Blur, Grease
Pseudo Dragon - Blur, Chromatic orb
Spider - Blur, Spook, Web

My proposed changes:

* Familiars should level up together with their Masters so that they'd start with very low HP (fixing the aberration of giving so many HP to the summoner in BGT). Here below my suggestions (valid for all familiars)

- Initial HPs: 6, +2 at level up (+1 after level 9) | Half of the total HPs (rounded down) would be added to the total HPs of the Master.

- (if possible) The constitution penalty will not be permanent in case of death of the Familiar but will last untill a new Familiar is summoned| A total of X (7?)days after the Familiar death (elaborazione del lutto :-) ) will be needed to be able to cast again Find Familiar. This would perhaps put a stop to the reloads.

- Let the Familiar grant a very low Magic Reistance (1%) to the summoner as long as it lives (from P&P).

Color Spray: I like the way it is not but to nerf it we can just let the target save at +2.

Power Word, Sleep: I am against it your proposed change. All the Power Word spells are characterized by the lack of a saving throw. We don't want to break this.

Ray of Enfeeblement: Your revision is nice. I approve it in the terms you proposed it.

Fire Shields: the Fire Shield in SR v2 is already a big improvement over the vanilla one but what you suggested is good, mostly the tricky to implement part. But honestly, I think this might wait SR v4.

Enchanted Weapons: Yes.

Otiluke Resilient Sphere: Yes.

Chaos: Yes.

Monster Summoning spells, Animate Dead, Summon Shadow: Absolutely yes!

Stone to Flesh: Should I even say it?

Summon Djinni/Efreeti: No, I would keep it.

Incendiary Cloud: Removing blindness makes this spell not worth its level. You might think of something related to the big amount of smoke created and have it affect breathing creature (not undead, constructs and so on...)

Power Word Silence/Blind/Stun/Kill: I agree.

Spell Sequencer/Contingencies: It seems appropriate to raise the casting time from 1 round to 1 turn.

Wail of Banshee: I approve.


DIVINE

Sleep: Yes to switching Bless with Sleep in the druidic spellbook.

Doom: I would not allow a saving throw but I would reduce the malus from -2 to -1 and introduce a chance (5%) to panic and flee the battle.

Unholy Blight/Unholy Word: No, I don't think so.

Magic Resistance: Yes to the 10% + 1% / level but no to capping it to 30% (40% is good).

Physical Mirror: Yes to all.

Natur's Beauty: SixOfSpades' suggestions sounded good to me.

Keep it up!

Edited by Salk, 29 November 2008 - 12:14 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Salk, on Nov 27 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

Spell Sequencer/Contingencies: It seems appropriate to raise the casting time from 1 round to 1 turn.

Isn't that the same thing? So what do you exactly mean? As the common casting time has no unite, it's just 1, 2, 3 etc. 10(which is turn/round)=5 seconds in real time.

Salk, on Nov 27 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

Cat - Blur, Friends
Mephit - Blur, Glitterdust, Glass dust
Faerie Dragon - Blur, Mirror image, Invis 10ft radius
Ferret - Blur, Blindness
Imp - Blur, Polymorph self
Quasit - Blur, Horror, Color spray
Rabbit - Blur, Grease
Pseudo Dragon - Blur, Chromatic orb
Spider - Blur, Spook, Web

What about adding a third spell to every familiar, like these:
Cat - Doom - For bad luck from seeing black cat.
Ferret - ... -
Imp - Burning Hands -
Rabbit - Luck - Rabbit foots are considered to bring good luck.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Guest, on Nov 27 2008, 01:38 PM, said:

I use the following components from Bigg Tweaks:
Nature's Beauty Tweak, Imprisonment Fix, Flesh to Stone Fix, Drop Weapons in Panic Effect Removal
I'm interested to know if installing SR (current or next version) will mean I no longer have to install these components.

There is also the P5 tweaks, that has most of those.

[Salk]

The imprisonment fix is already part of the current release.

The flesh to stone one will hopefully be in the next one.

Jarno,

isn't 1 turn=10 rounds?

If the casting time now is 1 round I simply meant to say it should be 10 times as much.

About adding a third spell to the familiars, well... I think there is already much work to do to assemble it and I am honestly hoping that V3 will be out ASAP.

[Shaitan]

Yes; please incorporate P5tweaks into SR

[Demivrgvs]

Find Familiar:

Salk, on Nov 27 2008, 11:59 AM, said:

* Familiars should level up together with their Masters so that they'd start with very low HP (fixing the aberration of giving so many HP to the summoner in BGT). Here below my suggestions (valid for all familiars)

- Initial HPs: 6, +2 at level up (+1 after level 9) | Half of the total HPs (rounded down) would be added to the total HPs of the Master.

- (if possible) The constitution penalty will not be permanent in case of death of the Familiar but will last untill a new Familiar is summoned| A total of X (7?)days after the Familiar death (elaborazione del lutto :-) ) will be needed to be able to cast again Find Familiar. This would perhaps put a stop to the reloads.

I do agree that the main issue with them is being extremely overpowered in BG1 and completely useless in most of BG2, but I'm not sure it's necessary to make them level up so many times, I'd say an increase in power ever 3-5 levels should be enough. That being said, familiars should remain quite "weak" imo.

The constitution issue is something I'm not sure I'd want to deal with...we'll see.

Color Spray

Quote

I like the way it is not but to nerf it we can just let the target save at +2.

That's a possibility...though it makes the spell quite ineffective at mid-high levels.

Power Word, Sleep

Quote

I am against it your proposed change. All the Power Word spells are characterized by the lack of a saving throw. We don't want to break this.

I knew this would have been pointed out...but I don't know any other way to make this spell at least bearable, right now it's completely pointless imo.

Incendiary Cloud

Quote

Removing blindness makes this spell not worth its level. You might think of something related to the big amount of smoke created and have it affect breathing creature (not undead, constructs and so on...)

Blindness can be replaced with something similar like -4 to thac0 and AC (though in BG engine it actually does -10 thac0), but these penalties wouldn't do much to spellcasters, it would only penalize warriors...

Magic Resistance

Quote

Yes to the 10% + 1% / level but no to capping it to 30% (40% is good).

Actually the whole point was about the cap being moved to 30%, which still means that 1/3 of enemy spells won't affect the caster for a long duration. Anyway if we want to keep a higher cap I'm not sure I would do it by allowing the spell to increase beyond 20th caster level, not a single IR's spell does that.

Guest, on Nov 27 2008, 12:38 PM, said:

I use the following components from Bigg Tweaks:

Nature's Beauty Tweak
Imprisonment Fix
Flesh to Stone Fix
Drop Weapons in Panic Effect Removal

I'm interested to know if installing SR (current or next version) will mean I no longer have to install these components.

Nature's Beauty Tweak will no longer be needed as of IR V3.
Imprisonment Fix is no longer necessary, as IR does a very similar thing.
Flesh to Stone Fix should be installed after IR.
Drop Weapons in Panic Effect Removal may no longer be necessary as IR has removed that annoying feature from fear spells. I don't know if there's any rare specimen of spell-like ability which still has this feature...if any, I may do something about it as soon as we find it out.

Shaitan, on Nov 27 2008, 01:23 PM, said:

Yes; please incorporate P5tweaks into SR

Last time I talked with Miloch about it he wasn't so sure about doing it, he preferred to keep the two mods separate...

1. Drop Items on Frozen Death: turning the gore off is much better, all those crazy blocks of ice everywhere are quite "unrealistic" when you've just hit with a sword which deals one point of cold damage...

2. Drop Items on Disintegration: is no longer necessary with SR's Disintegration.

3. Drop Items on Imprisonment: doesn't make much sense imo...but surely it's convenient.

4. Drop Items on Petrification: the main issue here isn't the equipment imo, but the game over if charname is hit...I don't remember what the bigg did, but I think his solution was actually better thant P5tweaks' one. I was thinking about changing the spell to apply a permanent stun effect, but I haven't thought much about it yet. We'll see.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 27 November 2008 - 10:26 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Salk, on Nov 27 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

- (if possible) The constitution penalty will not be permanent in case of death of the Familiar but will last untill a new Familiar is summoned| A total of X (7?)days after the Familiar death (elaborazione del lutto :-) ) will be needed to be able to cast again Find Familiar. This would perhaps put a stop to the reloads.

You did know that you can remove the penalty with Lesser Restoration spell? The Imp, it's just another Vampire on the party.

Demivrgvs, on Nov 27 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

Color Spray

Quote

I like the way it is not but to nerf it we can just let the target save at +2.

That's a possibility...though it makes the spell quite ineffective at mid-high levels.

And? Hey it's a first level spell... or should Magic Missile send 20 missiles on level 40?
That's 240 MMs within two turns. How you ask, 1* Improved Alacrity spell, 1 Faster Castrate item(->cast time goes to 0), 12 Magic Missile spells, and 12 pause pushes.

[Demivrgvs]

Color Spray

Quote

I like the way it is not but to nerf it we can just let the target save at +2.

Quote

That's a possibility...though it makes the spell quite ineffective at mid-high levels.

Quote

And? Hey it's a first level spell... or should Magic Missile send 20 missiles on level 40?
That's 240 MMs within two turns. How you ask, 1* Improved Alacrity spell, 1 Faster Castrate item(->cast time goes to 0), 12 Magic Missile spells, and 12 pause pushes.

One thing is being completely ineffective (= in mid-late SoA and surely in ToB anyone will almost always succeed a save with a +2 bonus), another is being effective but balanced for a 1st level spell (= quite weak later on, but still doing something). I do not want low level spells to be powerful in the later stage of the game, but I do want them to be at least effective/useful somehow.

P.S Improved Alacrity is a very exploitable spell, and it's too bad the minimum casting time doesn't have a cap at 1. Unfortunately I cannot do anything to prevent it.

Edited by Demivrgvs, 28 November 2008 - 09:43 AM.

[SixOfSpades]

Thoughts on Find Familiar: Instead of one's Familiar being tied directly to one's Alignment in a 1::1 ratio, I would have your Alignment (and possibly your kit) narrow down your possible options of which Familiar you want to select. In my opinion, it would be great to allow the PC to choose whether he wants his pet to be a halfway-decent Warrior, or a substitute Priest, or an ersatz Thief, or a backup Wizard, or whatnot. There are loads of possibilities: Snakes, Spiders, Elementals, Dancing Swords, Zombies, Lizard Men, Djinni . . . you get the idea. Also, all Familiars should have slow Regeneration rates, just for when the PC is a solo Wizard and doesn't have Cure Light Wounds anymore.