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#1 FredSRichardson

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 03:39 PM

Here's an open thread for anything I can think of about the current beta.

Please post any issues (and if possible solutions) you find. I'll try to respond to what I can.

I'm hoping I can upload something more recent, I'm not sure what made it into the last beta.

#2 FredSRichardson

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:59 PM

Uploaded the latest thing I have bumping the version from beta1.01 to beta1.05

Updated the "Open Beta" page with a bit more info on how to install.

#3 Zamael

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 11:31 PM

I can't download because it asks not only a password, but a name, which you never mentioned.

Also how will this thing conflict with all those mods I've put on IWD1? Should I uninstall them first, or will this just dump everything over them and forget about them?

Edited by Zamael, 11 November 2008 - 11:31 PM.


#4 FredSRichardson

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 06:29 AM

Ooops! Yes, user name is "iw12" (without the quotes). I'll update the page now.

I highly recommend going back to a vanilla iwd1-HoW-ToTLM and iwd2 installs with the patches. At some point I'll see if I can make a version that works with iwd1 but without HoW and ToTLM. I doubt the code can handle mods very well.

#5 Zamael

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:14 AM

Thanks. Downloading now (and uninstalling mods).

Also one another thing: I used to love the IWD1 interface, but hate the IWD2 one. So I was wondering whether it'd be possible for you, or someone else, to add a similar option than in BG1TuTu, where you could make the game look like it's supposed to instead of the sequel?

(Obviously a lot tougher task than with BG1Tutu, but still.)

#6 FredSRichardson

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:50 AM

Thanks. Downloading now (and uninstalling mods).

Also one another thing: I used to love the IWD1 interface, but hate the IWD2 one. So I was wondering whether it'd be possible for you, or someone else, to add a similar option than in BG1TuTu, where you could make the game look like it's supposed to instead of the sequel?

(Obviously a lot tougher task than with BG1Tutu, but still.)

I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't figured out how to change the startup screen, though I think something could be done with a little photoshop magic and some file converting.

All the transition screens are from iwd1, so that helps a little bit with the "immersion". The music is (or should be) from iwd1 as well. I think I had all this working. I can't remember whats in those bik files (the big download), but I think those are the movies.

So, in short, there are some things which look iwd2-ish: the initial game load screen and the load icon which fills up between transitions. Those wouldn't be too hard to change I don't think (but I'm not sure). The general game mechanics (the interface and such) and the way spell type effects work and look reflects the newer engine so those aren't likely to change (and I personally don't think they should).

#7 FredSRichardson

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:11 PM

Well damn....

I can't seem to get into see "Old Jeb". I get an error in CRuleTables.cpp (i.e. entering area AR0014.ARE crashes the game).

The ARE and CRE check out okay in DLTCEP. I could try deleting things from the area until it works and maybe debug that way.

Anyone have any ideas?

#8 Zamael

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 10:29 PM

Edit: Never mind, figured it out exactly five seconds after posting this.

Here's another question, though: The operation ran succesfully, but you didn't leave any instructions of what to do next? Both IWD1 and 2 would still seem to run perfectly normally, saved games and all, and I'm not sure whether this should be a good or bad thing: Right now it'd seem like nothing's changed.

Moredit: I sure hope the instructions about allowing to write in the override folder meant about removing the "read only" label, which I did. Interestingly, each time I open the Properties window of the folder, the label's back, but none of the files under it are read only anymore.

Edited by Zamael, 12 November 2008 - 10:47 PM.


#9 FredSRichardson

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:27 AM

Sorry about the confusion. I couldn't figure out how to get the installer to change permissions automagically. I'll have to see about doing that.

I figured out the problem with "Old Jed". Turns out he had no levels in anything. I'll have to figure out why the code is letting that happen.

#10 FredSRichardson

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 06:19 AM

Okay, I'm playing through again. So far I think Old Jed was the only problem, but it's hard to tell since I fixed the problem (this will cause an area crash for areas with CRE's that have no levels in IWD1).

The game is pretty easy for a party of 6, at least for the Easthaven areas and the Kuldahar pass. My party made level 1 about half way through clearing the pass. At least things seem to work okay, tuning can come later.

#11 Zamael

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 12:44 AM

Well, to my experience, the game works just fine - apart from Old Jed, of course - at least up until the second level of the Vale of Shadows's main dungeon, where I am right now. The only actual gameplay problem I have is that I level up a bit too slow right now: I'm about two levels behind of what I would be in a normal game. You could boost up the experience a little bit, especially on some tougher monsters: Everything gives about half the usual experience! And it's not funny when every undead, only excluding the lowest of the lowest of skeletons, has ridiculous damage resistances: When a Myrkul's sending won't go down until I throw literally everything I have at him, I'd love if he gave a lot more exp than he did. Not to mention mummies, which have always been pretty tough, and whose experience gain has dropped from several thousand to measly 75. Challenge rating my ass.

Edit: *After trying the zillionth time the entrance battle of the Vale's third level* How in the bloody hell could you say the game's "pretty easy for a part of 6"? What kind of a badass gang do you have?

Ehh, good thing there's Dalekeeper, which still works... *Gives everyone a 5,000 experience bonus*

Moredit: Kresselack's quest gives 700 xp? Seven bloody hundred from a quest that used to give thirteen thousand?! Yeah, this totally needs some rework here. It's a wonder how my bunch can gain levels at all without Dalekeeper.

Also Arundel doesn't seem to understand that I'm done with the Vale of Shadows, still telling me to go over there without furthering the plot.

Every other problem I have is purely cosmetic: The game still looks way too much like IWD2, although fixing this would probably be way too much trouble - though I suppose you could go and change the colors a bit to more IWD1'ish at least, or something. Also, it'd be nice if it kept IWD2 perfectly playable without messing it up: If BG1Tutu made BG2 unplayable, I'd rage. And, perhaps most importantly, the menu music desperately needs fixing: IWD1's rules, IWD2's sucks.

Also would be cool if I could still go to HoW and TotL after finishing the game, without taking a long hike to Kuldahar to talk to Hrotgar.

All in all, though, everything works just fine, apart from the absolutely sluggish exp gain, so I reckon you could start concentrate more on cosmetics from now on.

Edited by Zamael, 15 November 2008 - 05:09 AM.


#12 FredSRichardson

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 08:11 AM

Excellent! Thanks for playing through so far! I haven't yet gotten through the vale. I think the early creatures are a bit easy.

The tough monsters you're hitting in the main Vale dungeon are ones converted the "old" way. That is, they're way too tough (they use Weimer's heuristics for conversion which leads to some seriously over powered monsters). I finally decided that you couldn't do an automatic conversion in any satisfying way which means a fair amount of custom work needs doing.

I'll see what I can do about the sluggish xp growth. I agree that something has to be done. At one point I went through IWD1 and tracked the level progress at each stage so I could try to match that. The party should all be at level 1 (for 6 members) by the time they're finished up in Easthaven and are ready to go to Kuldahar.

Making IWD2 still playable is going to need some work, and I think I'll put this off until everything else is done. For now, you can do two installs (if you have the spare disk space). I'll have to see how BG1tutu did this.

I agree with you completely about the opening splash and music. I'd love to get rid of that (never liked it). Which parts do you think are too IWD2-ish in general? Do you mean the style of the buttons in the user interface? Any suggestions you have for this I think would be great. It wouldn't be too hard to get some of this over. Most of the major things can't change (like you'll still have feat buttons and the weapon swapping will work the same way, these are the things I actually like).

Thanks again for the excellent feedback! I'll try to get my party further along into the vale's dungeon.

-Fred

#13 Zamael

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 08:33 AM

Excellent! Thanks for playing through so far! I haven't yet gotten through the vale. I think the early creatures are a bit easy.


Oh, well that explains your opinion about difficulty: I thought it was kinda easy as well. A lot less goblins at the Kuldahar pass, for instance. Could be because I hadn't reached for level 2 just yet back then.

Making IWD2 still playable is going to need some work, and I think I'll put this off until everything else is done. For now, you can do two installs (if you have the spare disk space). I'll have to see how BG1tutu did this.


It'll be a lot of work, sure: Your work is still far from what BG1Tutu was, but I'm confident this will have changed in the end.

I agree with you completely about the opening splash and music. I'd love to get rid of that (never liked it). Which parts do you think are too IWD2-ish in general? Do you mean the style of the buttons in the user interface? Any suggestions you have for this I think would be great. It wouldn't be too hard to get some of this over. Most of the major things can't change (like you'll still have feat buttons and the weapon swapping will work the same way, these are the things I actually like).


Well, I reckon that if you could change the colour scheme to fit somewhat the original, then I'd be fairly satisfied. I always hated the silvery-greenish outlook of IWD2, while IWD1's brown fit in just about perfectly.

Thanks again for the excellent feedback! I'll try to get my party further along into the vale's dungeon.


You're welcome. I'll be able to post some more as soon as you can fix Arundel, but until that, I'm pretty much stuck here. Edit: Although I guess I could Dalekeep myself about million more xp and go exploring HoW. Might do that later.

Edited by Zamael, 15 November 2008 - 08:38 AM.


#14 FredSRichardson

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 12:13 PM

Excellent! Thanks for playing through so far! I haven't yet gotten through the vale. I think the early creatures are a bit easy.

Oh, well that explains your opinion about difficulty: I thought it was kinda easy as well. A lot less goblins at the Kuldahar pass, for instance. Could be because I hadn't reached for level 2 just yet back then.

I just started an IWD1 game so I can make some comparisons. I think my party reached level 2 at about the same time as IWD1tutu or maybe slightly sooner. The rogue/bard types hit level 3 some time in the pass, and the cleric hit level 3 in Kuldahar, so things are definitely slower for IWD1tutu after that (I was at level 2 for most of the Vale I think).

Making IWD2 still playable is going to need some work, and I think I'll put this off until everything else is done. For now, you can do two installs (if you have the spare disk space). I'll have to see how BG1tutu did this.

It'll be a lot of work, sure: Your work is still far from what BG1Tutu was, but I'm confident this will have changed in the end.

BG1Tutu is a different story. More people are working on it (naturally this mod doesn't gain as much interest) and the translation is a lot more direct. Converting a 2E system to a 3E system has turned out to be a bear of a job. That being said, I'll have to take a look at BG1tutu to see how they kept the original install (I've found that I have to modify some files that have a global effect on the game).

I agree with you completely about the opening splash and music. I'd love to get rid of that (never liked it). Which parts do you think are too IWD2-ish in general? Do you mean the style of the buttons in the user interface? Any suggestions you have for this I think would be great. It wouldn't be too hard to get some of this over. Most of the major things can't change (like you'll still have feat buttons and the weapon swapping will work the same way, these are the things I actually like).

Well, I reckon that if you could change the colour scheme to fit somewhat the original, then I'd be fairly satisfied. I always hated the silvery-greenish outlook of IWD2, while IWD1's brown fit in just about perfectly.

I like the idea. This sounds like something that could be done in photo shop. I'll look into it, but it may have to come later.

Thanks again for the excellent feedback! I'll try to get my party further along into the vale's dungeon.

You're welcome. I'll be able to post some more as soon as you can fix Arundel, but until that, I'm pretty much stuck here. Edit: Although I guess I could Dalekeep myself about million more xp and go exploring HoW. Might do that later.

I'm afraid this is where you'll be greatly dissappointed. I don't think I've converted any of the later areas of the game yet (and if I did, then they're prone to the same problems you've seen in the main Vale dungeon). Each chapter takes a fair amount of work, so I'm going to try and focus on that next.

Make sure you have a save game at the top of the Vale, so that you can pick up where you left off for the next beta release. I better start working on it :)

#15 FredSRichardson

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 08:43 PM

I'm playing through IWD2 now to remind myself what the level progression is like.

It's not too hard to install IWD1tutu in a seperate directory, though it takes a lot of disk space (I think I can see a way around this), still, if you want two installs let me know and I'll give you the details.



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