14 replies to this topic

[Icendoan]

All Compatibility Reports Should Be Made Here!

So far, the only incompatibilities are:

Tortured Souls: Modifies Yoshimo's path far from the original
Yoshimo Friendship: Relies on Yoshimo's death.

And any compatility notes are:

Item Revisions: Main Component has to be installed before KY due to it modifying Yoshimo's Katana (And we duplicate and repatch it, so if you want the IR version, install after)

And, finally, Talk Weirdness:

Banter Packs, for a talk mentioning Yoshimo's death.

Keto: Will sing a nonsensical song about Yoshimo if they are in the party together. You can play with both installed, but to avoid this all you need is to not have both Yoshimo and Keto together. Otherwise, if you are willing to live with something that doesn't make sense, you game will not break.

Icen

Edited by Icendoan, 14 June 2009 - 03:50 AM.

[Lemernis]

Keeping Yoshimo is conceptually incompatible with Yoshimo Friendship, because the latter is written for Yoshi to die per the vanilla game.

And from another site:

Quote

Incidentally, your mod contains plot-element incompatibility with Keto, and your readme should probably reflect that if it doesn't already. I really enjoyed Keto and Yoshimo's interactions, and her reaction to the original BioWare plot, and Keto's subsequent bantering with Kelsey (and assorted BioWare NPCs), are all story-driven modding at its finest, for sure.

So I think it's just Keto that is incompatible. I.e., Kelsey without Keto hopefully does not raise the subject of Yoshi's death. But I'm waiting for the poster's response on that question.

Edited by Lemernis, 22 March 2009 - 01:41 AM.

[Icendoan]

I'm not sure about Keto, not having played the mod. If it is, I'll add it to the list, but until someone a) gets proof or b) has a solution.

You could just use ButtPluggingCumBubble to check if he is dead or not, or even Dead("Yoshimo").

Icen

[Lemernis]

Yeah, hopefully it's matter of a simple scripting adjustment to check for a variable, and then not have Keto's dialogues pertaining to Yoshi's death fire accordingly. Same applies for any of the mods that have material that assume Yoshimo to die. If it's just a relatively small number of banters, I would hope this would be easy to add to make our mods compatible.

Edited by Lemernis, 22 March 2009 - 03:14 AM.

[Lemernis]

Keeping Yoshimo is incompatible with the following component in Unfinished Business. Just this component, not the whole mod. We could mention it in the readme, although any player who is installing Unfinished Business would see right away that it should not be installed:

Quote

Y. Sarevok's Remorse for Yoshimo and Tamoko, by Sovran and Winterine

David Gaider "would have liked to see Sarevok confronted with the idea that not only was he responsible for Tamoko's death (and delve more into that), but Yoshimo's as well". This component sheds some light on the link between Yoshimo, Tamoko, and Sarevok. In SoA, an extra dialogue between Yoshimo and Charname is added, as well as a small extension to Yoshimo's storyline. In ToB, a dialogue between Charname and Sarevok explores presviously unresolved issues such as Tamoko’s *real* cause of death, which can -- and probably will -- also affect the possibility of Sarevok's redemption. [This is also one facet of the upcoming Sarevok Relationship mod.] If you start a new game in ToB but wish to assume you say the SoA part soon, then using the CLUAConsole to SetGlobal("U!SIlmater","GLOBAL",1) is all that's needed. This component requires ToB.

Edited by Lemernis, 29 March 2009 - 12:59 AM.

[Lemernis]

Banter Packs includes a dialogue between Imoen and Jaheira regarding Yoshimo's death. Hopefully it checks for the Yoshimo's death variable in order to fire. But if not, then that one dialogue (not the whole mod) is in conflict with Keeping Yoshimo.

Edited by Lemernis, 29 March 2009 - 01:00 AM.

[Cal Jones]

Having played Keto I'd say not. She has a whole huge quest in Chapter 6 which centres around him being dead, not to mention the other dialogues.

Angelo has some nice dialogues with Yoshmio before Spellhold. After, you can ask him about Yoshimo via the PID and he says something like "it's a shame, chief, but what can you do?" Not too major, really - and not sure if it checks for Yoshimo's death but you might want to ask Sister V, or Kulyok (who coded it).

[Icendoan]

Ok, I'll add Keto to the list and PM Kulyok now.

Icen

[Lemernis]

Quest Pack has the following feature that could mess up KY:

Quote

Saving Sanik In Brynnlaw

This component adds a window of opportunity during which Sanik can be saved from his untimely fate at the hands of Galvena's Assassin in Bynnlaw. Be sure to act quickly, however, for the assassin will soon penetrate his meagre defence and strike true.

KY is scripted to have a Yoshimo conversation fire after Sanik is killed. It's the dialogue where Yoshimo asks to hide out in the Vulgar Monkey. So we could advise in the readme that this particular feature of Quest Pack is not incompatible; however do not assist Sanik in killing the assassin--let Sanik be killed.

***

Note: a small point but IIRC it's not Sanik's death per se that is the trigger for that conversation by Yoshi. Rather it's the Innkeeper's last line "As you like" after Sanik is killed. But in Quest Pack if you rescue Sanik the innkeeper won't speak that line, he'll say something else. In any event, the mods are still incompatible if the party chooses to save Sanik.

Edited by Lemernis, 02 May 2009 - 02:49 AM.

[Lemernis]

I guess scripts for Keto's dialogues about Yoshimo's death might be adjusted to fire if-and-only-if the Dead("Yoshimo") variable is found. But then again, it sounds like a lot of content was written around Yoshimo's death because of the friendship Keto forms with him. I can see how the authors of Keto might not want to compromise their mod. It may just be best for them to be incompatible.

[Lemernis]

Guest, on May 1 2009, 07:07 AM, said:

And how exactly does the Chapter 6 Keto quest work? I mean, what if you never had Yoshi in your party to begin with? Does Keto's quest still proceed? What if you were to install both Keto and KY but only have one of the two in your party at a time?

It's been ages since I played the Keto mod, and honestly I don't remember any of its details beyond her perfoming in a bard competition in Imnesvale. But if the song Keto sings in that competition refers to Yoshimo and his death then I don't see how the two mods could ever be compatible.

I'm looking through the TRA files... I haven't found the text for Keto's song, but it does appear that she is rather taken with Yoshi. I would not be surpised if she might in fact sing about him for her quest. She also has some lines with Kesley bemoaning his death...

***

I'm still unable to find Keto's song, per se, as there's a huge amount of text. But from a number of lines it does seem clear that Keto essentially tells the "Ballad of Yoshimo," i.e., the story of his struggle with his conscience in betraying the party while under a geas. She formed a friendship with him and after he dies it becomes very important to her that the world understand what he was dealing with, and that he be remembered well. From everything I can see, Keto and KY are incompatible because her quest is dependent on Yoshimo dying per the vanilla story.

***

Okay, I'll play devil's advocate for a moment on this:

If Yoshimo never joins the party to begin with, Keto must have an alternate song to sing in the bard competition. Therefore, if Yoshi's death variable is not found then Keto will sing that alternate song. So just like any other conversation Keto has pertaining to Yoshi's death, here too if the death variable isn't found then the material written around his death simply wouldn't fire.

I doubt that it would be particularly jarring for most players if the friendship between Keto and Yoshimo simply ceases after Spellhold. Players would still be able to enjoy Keto in all her other dimensions. And if Keeping Yoshimo is not installed along with Keto, then the mod would still work business as usual (again, assuming all conversations re: Yoshi's death are dependent on a check for his death variable). I can appreciate not wanting to compromise something so integral to the character by eliminating material that is so important to Keto. But if the above mentioned changes were made, for those who want the fullest possible Keto experience, then obviously they should not install Keeping Yoshimo along with Keto.

So this would entail 1) the approval of the Keto mod team, obviously, and 2) a modder going though all Keto's conversations that pertain to Yoshimo's death and scripting them so that they fire if-and-only-if Yoshimo's death variable is found.

Edited by Lemernis, 02 May 2009 - 02:24 AM.

[Leomar]

Here some informations about Keeping Yoshimo and Keto:
http://forums.pocket...ic,26488.0.html

Greetings Leomar

[Icendoan]

Updated, thanks!

Icen