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Going to Spellhold


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#16 Hendryk

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 04:53 AM

i like the idea, but why would a vampire... say, your enemies "the bad dude whos behind your downfall is irenicus and he's hiding in spellhold"  :)  like... it sounds like a james bond cliche, no? the bad guy telling you their exact plan while he thinks you are about to die?  :cool:

Well, don't forget that this is still Chap 2. The purpose of the vampire attacks wouldn't be to kill the PC - it'd be to herd the PC to Spellhold where Irenicus could perform his ritual and steal his/her soul. Making life on the mainland untenable for the PC would be one way to do this if the PC is too inclined to forgive and forget. Thus, the dialogue wouldn't be misplaced gloating. It could be a straightforward explanation of why the PC has incurred a curse of vampires. And it wouldn't even have to be given directly to the PC; any prominent NPC could be used as a go-between. Lots of plot twists could be inserted if this is settled on as a basic mechanism to get the PC to Spellhold.

#17 Immortality

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 05:16 AM

Ah, chapter 2 that sounds better :)

#18 Domi

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 05:19 AM

Exactly, there are should be some way to avoid Spellhold all together, and still finish the game - how about Irenicus coming after you to Athkatla after killing Imoen in Sepplhold and performing his ritual in Bodhi's layer? You kill Bodhi there, grab the Lantern, Suldanesselar gets opened etc.. - and voila! the game is over!
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#19 BobTokyo

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 06:25 AM

Honestly, if you want to roleplay a character who stubornly refuses ever to leave the Seven Veils tavern, you can. It'll get mighty dull after a while, but that's your choice. You have a Good reason (save Imoen) and two arguably Evil reasons (Kill Irenicus, Gain Power from Irenicus) to go after him. If your character still doesn't care, have fun on the mainland.


Well, you see, I really dont give a damn about Imoen, and i dont care for power, just like Idobek. Thing is, if you are like this, you just HAVE to go to spellhold anyway to end the damned game. If i was truly rolaplaying i could say i'd live a really quiet SIMs life in Amn, but lets get real, i kill imoen in sight (then dump her body in the road) and i STILL have to pretend i care and go to spellhold to finish the game. :cool:

Well, I see you have your next mod project.

SIM-ATHKATHLA.

:)

(The hard part will be in game mobile furniture)

#20 khayman

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 06:38 AM

I`m not entirely sure we should change the game`s main plot this much. I mean the scope of the mod actually is getting hired by the Cowled Wizards, doing quests and gaining Spellhold. Maybe some extras with the Planar Sphere mod.

#21 BobTokyo

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 06:46 AM

I`m not entirely sure we should change the game`s main plot this much. I mean the scope of the mod actually is getting hired by the Cowled Wizards, doing quests and gaining Spellhold. Maybe some extras with the Planar Sphere mod.

Sticking to your projet paramaters is a good thing, and the only way you'll actually get anything done.

As it is, you have a built in new way to get the party to Spellhold, and an easy, dialog only new reason for them to go; The Cowled Ones haven't had contact with Spellhold for a few days and want it investigated. That's enough. :)

#22 khayman

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 06:53 AM

You are perfectly right. :)

#23 Guest_Aristothenes_*

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 09:50 AM

eh.. this game is heroic fantasy, not malingerer fantasy.
way I see it: If Irenicus says he can unlock your power further:
1) are you going to give the PC extra abilities after spellhold(not likely, Irenicus is a liar)?

If everyone turns against you, make sure it is the style of "I don't have anything to sell to you today!" "Me wares are not for the likes of ye!"
"Not a thought for those who spill innocent blood!"
and not...
"Hey, you're that Bhaalspawn that's been killin' the human folk! I will bring you to justice....Eyaaah!" - And you kill him since he's red-circled, and your scripts are on... and your rep goes down...

#24 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 12:57 AM

How about: Irenicus had already drained part of your soul before you escaped from his dungeon in chapter 1. You don't have slayer powers yet, but maybe you occasionally lose control (start attacking party members for a few seconds). That should be reason enough to go to spellhold.

#25 Valheru

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 06:34 AM

This is still a railroad solution of course but not so obviously so. Another tactic would simply be to have Bodhi and her minions attack whatever place the PC is in and plant the word among the civilians that the "PC's curse" is the reason for the Undead infestation. This would eventually mean that every NPC in the game would either attack the PC or run away. Plus, the vampires would also begin attacking the party. Eventually, the PC will can flat out be told (by one of the vampires) that Irenicus' enmity is behind all this and that Spellhold is the place to deal with it.


This would be quite impossible because have everyone in Athkatla attack the PC would result in a herendous loss in reputation and would intefere with the non-linear quests in the game. It would, due to a reputaion loss cause the cowled wizards to hunt the PC and that would not not make much sense. I think the fact that the PC is a Bhaalspawn would need to be kept relatively secret.

How about: Irenicus had already drained part of your soul before you escaped from his dungeon in chapter 1. You don't have slayer powers yet, but maybe you occasionally lose control (start attacking party members for a few seconds). That should be reason enough to go to spellhold.


I think this would make the game seriously difficult (and annoying) to play.

The Cowled Ones haven't had contact with Spellhold for a few days and want it investigated. That's enough.


This, I think is a sufficient excuse. The PC is working for the Cowled Wizards after all.

Edited by Valheru, 26 July 2004 - 06:40 AM.


#26 Immortality

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 08:46 AM

Why difficult and annoying to play? Its just some easy dialog change, no? :) And instead of turning into a slayer, CHARNAME can just go berserk. Thats not difficult to do either... or maybe it is... im not a modder :cool:

#27 SimDing0

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 09:36 AM

Rather than altering the backstory so that Irenicus has already drained part of your soul (although it doesn't actually seem like a BAD alteration, and might actually lend more credibility to the weirdo dreams you're getting with him in), it also seems reasonable to play on the fact that Irenicus NEEDS you in Spellhold, and if you fuck around on the mainland for too long, he's going to want to force you to go there.

However, the latter solution fails to fully address the problem with the plot. If you have no motivation to get to Spellhold, the player is just left milling around Athkatla with nothing to aim for and no idea what is going on. There needs to be a strong plot drive based around the player trying to achieve something rather than just waiting for anything interesting to happen.

As such, the "Irenicus has already drained some of your soul" thing is possibly the best explanation I've seen so far.

#28 Domi

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 10:17 AM

Providing that souls are proven to be dividable and transferable things by ToB's Sarevok it will work :) But on the side note - does anybody else thinks that it is one of the most ridiculous things in BG?
Faster. Faster. Faster would be better. -Mal Reynolds, Serenity
I understand that folks prefer code that works. -CamDawg, G3

#29 BobTokyo

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 10:29 AM

The whole idea of a soul is kinda silly, and the idea that all or part of a soul (or parts of a multipart soul) can be stollen is common enough in world folklore. I don't mind it.

I do not agree that CHARNAME doesn't have sufficient motivation to go to Spellhold even in the base game, unless the player is intentionally being obstinate.

"I don't care about the fate of my childhood companion, or revenge, or power, I just want to have adventures . . ."

Fine, have adventures.

"But I've run out of adventures!"

Game's over then, eh?

"But there was no final movie or end of game sequence!"

Download Game-Be-Gone.

:)

#30 Domi

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 11:03 AM

I never heard of part of a soul bein' taken - maybe that is why I am so confused. Btw, elves do not even have soul in FR - they have spirit... so... bah....

I actually agree with you - plenty of times I played the game "till going to Spellhold" and then abandoned it :) and still live.
Faster. Faster. Faster would be better. -Mal Reynolds, Serenity
I understand that folks prefer code that works. -CamDawg, G3



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