Jump to content


Photo

Viconia's Religion!


55 replies to this topic

#1 Zandilar

Zandilar
  • Members
  • 76 posts

Posted 16 July 2004 - 05:05 AM

Heya,

Just wanted to see if people were alive by asking a question...

How did Viconia come to follow Shar, and why does she follow her?

See I am not particularly interested in totally riding roughshod over how people see Viconia, though I think that might be impossible to avoid totally. I have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to see what other people think. :groucho:

#2 MrEnnigma

MrEnnigma
  • Members
  • 99 posts
  • Location:Purgatory

Posted 16 July 2004 - 06:02 AM

Most of what I've read tends to indicate Viccy fell in with Shar because she is the goddess of dark, night, loss, forgetfulness, unrevealed secrets, caverns, dungeons, the Underdark. Viconia falls under many of Shars aspects. Darkness and night go without saying since, by her very nature, Viccy is tied to these. She lost much when she fled the Underdark. Caverns and dungeons, again, are associated with her by her nature. She had to keep the fact she was Drow a secret for fear of reprisal, which could tie in to loss as well since she needed to constantly be moving and really couldn't associate with people. This is just a ramble off the top of my head. Your view?
Noble ends are not always reached by noble means...

If knowledge is power, then to be unknown is to be unconquerable.

Fade Dlardrageth Mod; some thievin' and some lovin' all rolled into one...
Discover her here.

#3 NiGHTMARE

NiGHTMARE
  • Modders
  • 2437 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampshire, UK

Posted 16 July 2004 - 06:34 AM

But the question is, how did she even learn of Shar's existence, let alone switch to worshipping her?

Three possibilities spring to mind:

1) She encountered a group of Sharran priests or monks, who somehow persuaded her to worship their dark god

2) She recieve some kind of a vision from Shar

3) She overheard someone talking about Shar, and it intrigued her enough to go out of her way to learn more on the subject.

#4 Loké

Loké

    Resident pyro

  • Members
  • 380 posts

Posted 16 July 2004 - 06:59 AM

She was a pretty high ranked preistess IIRC so it's possible she had heard of her just by learning about the various gods.

#5 Bri

Bri
  • Gibberlings
  • 3628 posts

Posted 16 July 2004 - 07:37 AM

Another thing to consider is that most clerics of Shar are supposed to become more cold emotionally speaking. Maybe Viconia also followed Shar for this reason (which makes her romancing the Bhaalspawn that little bit more of a betrayal of her new faith).
"I read about the evils of drinking, so I gave it up." "You gave up drinking?" "No, I gave up reading..."

#6 BobTokyo

BobTokyo
  • Members
  • 125 posts

Posted 16 July 2004 - 07:48 AM

As an older woman used to using her sexuality as a source of power, Viconia had planned to follow Cher. She made one little pronunciation mistake, and, well . . .

Edited by BobTokyo, 16 July 2004 - 10:48 AM.


#7 Zandilar

Zandilar
  • Members
  • 76 posts

Posted 16 July 2004 - 05:38 PM

Heya,

My personal view is you don't just "fall into the worship of" a deity without knowing at least something about that deity's dogma. I personally don't think that Lolth would like her priestesses knowing too much about other deities (especially a rival underdark deity - but I am not sure Lolth knows that about Shar, I'll have to look all that up... But the point remains that Lolth is quite a jealous god.)

So this means that somewhere in her journies she encountered a priest(ess) of Shar. I'd lean more towards a priestess than a priest, though. She would have had to spend some time with this person learning the ways of the Church of Shar. I'd say perhaps a tenday, given that Viconia has already been a cleric all she'd need to learn is the dogma of the Church of Shar, and how to identify herself to other Sharrans without getting herself killed out of hand.

NiGHTMARE:

If Viconia had simply become intrigued then gone out of her way to learn about the surface, she'd definitely be more educated about the surface world that she seems to be. For a lone drow on the surface to... well it's just inconcievable. Shar is not worshiped OPENLY in the Western Heartlands. The only other sources of information about Shar might be the Good churches (especially Selunite churches), and Candlekeep. If she wanted to find a church of Shar, she'd probably have to infiltrate one of the major cities, and then try and find a cell of Sharrans. This would be hard enough for a human to do, think of how much harder it would be for a drow!

But those are just my thoughts. :groucho: I am still not sure exactly what "background" I'm going to give her on it, if I'm going to give her some at all.

#8 BigRob

BigRob

    The Prince of Worthless Trivia

  • Gibberlings
  • 3871 posts
  • Location:Over there.

Posted 16 July 2004 - 07:05 PM

Perhaps she found an isolated temple of Shar in the upper underdark and there learned about her new goddess.
Aklon: Traveller. Healer. Warrior. Lover. Coming Soon at G3 (I swear!)

Click here to visit Aklon's G3 page.

Cam is on some kind of crack or something... either that, or it's the influence of Dr. Feelgood. - Icelus


The second confusing thing about Australia are the animals. They can be divided into three categories: Poisonous, Odd, and Sheep.

-Douglas Adams

#9 TheBalor

TheBalor
  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 16 July 2004 - 07:37 PM

Viconia had a period of rest and protection when traveling with the merchant caravan early on in her time on the surface. From the timeline we get from the Drizzt books, we know the fall of House DeVir happened at least several decades, if not more than a century, ago (House Do'Urden was the one that did the deed). She could have easily spent several years with the caravan, learning all she could about the surface through observation and studying whatever books she could acquire. Discovering a new patron deity to shield her from Lolth's vengeance would be amongst her top priorities when she was able to think about her situation, and so she would probably make special effort to gather as much information as she could about possible surface deity candidates. Shar would be near the top of her list for several reasons:
1. Shar's association with loss and darkness make her more closely related to Viconia than any other Faerunian deity I can think of.
2. Shar is also one of the oldest and most powerful deities, easily surpassing Lolth, and thus her position as a leading deity of evil is unlikely to change in the forseeable future.
3. Her knowledge of the inner workings of drow society and magic would probably make her an invaluable asset in helping Shar's followers recruit more Drow.

Even if she was not aware of Shar's existence even after being driven out of the caravan, it is unlikely she would be able to ignore it for long. Viconia would be forced to live and work in the shadowy places of Faerun, and there are a few deities she would find out were the dominant powers in those areas: Shar (darkness), Mask (thievery), Bane (Strife and Fear), Cyric (Murder), Loviatar (Pain), and Talona (Poison and Disease). Those last two are relatively weak goddesses, former thralls of Bhaal, and they probably couldn't shield her from Lolth's reach. Cyric is powerful, but male and bloody madman. Bane is powerful, but also male and demands the kind of unquestioned loyalty Viconia would probably resent. Shar fits her best, and she would likely realize it and try to seek out a cult of shar as soon as she could.

Edited by TheBalor, 16 July 2004 - 07:50 PM.


#10 Guest_-Cybersquirt_*

Guest_-Cybersquirt_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 July 2004 - 09:49 PM

(good to see you back, Zandilar :groucho: )

If we ask her, she says: Nightsinger is mistress of darkness and loss. I was born of darkness and I have lost much: my faith, my home... Shar has returned much. I am grateful to Her.

And later: I... I regret I am not a creature who can feel things as you do. The capacity... is just not within. I almost wish it was, but darkness and loss are my callings... Shar knows only too well.

But I think it (Shar's tenents/Vicy's worship of Shar) is also (mainly?) highly symbolic of Viconia's own personal struggles.

#11 Cybersquirt

Cybersquirt

    Socialist Evil-doer

  • Members
  • 69 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:CaLiForNia

Posted 16 July 2004 - 10:41 PM

..that would be her struggle to figure out how she fits into 'the brave new world' and, if we romance her as a male, how she deals (or doesn't deal) with these conflicting emotions.

Edited by Cybersquirt, 16 July 2004 - 10:43 PM.

Stupid is as stupid does.

#12 Cybersquirt

Cybersquirt

    Socialist Evil-doer

  • Members
  • 69 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:CaLiForNia

Posted 16 July 2004 - 10:49 PM

But the question is, how did she even learn of Shar's existence, let alone switch to worshipping her?

Three possibilities spring to mind:

1) She encountered a group of Sharran priests or monks, who somehow persuaded her to worship their dark god

2) She recieve some kind of a vision from Shar

3) She overheard someone talking about Shar, and it intrigued her enough to go out of her way to learn more on the subject.

I dunno, NiGhtmare. Seems to me that quite a few of the plot lines are ..one of convienence rather than a well thought out storyline. I'm betting you could find plenty of inconsistencies when you start looking. Not to dismiss the whole thing but.. uh.. what is gained/what will it affect to know how she learned of Shar ...aka, to what end? :groucho:
Stupid is as stupid does.

#13 BobTokyo

BobTokyo
  • Members
  • 125 posts

Posted 17 July 2004 - 01:59 AM

While it is true that huge chunks of the game make no sense, fanwanking is a time honored tradition. It can be good fun to spend some time trying to fill a plot hole. :groucho:

#14 NiGHTMARE

NiGHTMARE
  • Modders
  • 2437 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampshire, UK

Posted 17 July 2004 - 02:09 AM

Zandilar: when Viconia left the priesthood of Lloth, Shar wasn't a rival Underdark deity. That only happened 12 years before BG2, during the Time of Troubles when Shar killed Ibrandul and took his portfolio. Shar still pretends to be Ibrandul (not even his former clerics are aware their spells are now granted by Shar), so whether Lloth knows about this change or not is another question open for debate :groucho:.

As for Shar not being worshipped openly in the Western Heartlands, that's not entirely accurate. In Amn alone there's a 40 year old non-secret temple of Shar in the Smallteeth mountains known as the Dark Embrace, and an brand new (only 3 years old) open monastery of Shar in the city of Purskul. Incidentally, while the monastery in Purskul obviously didn't exist at the time Viconia chose her new deity, it's worth mentioning because it includes several drow among its ranks (though they're all sorcerer/monks rather than clerics).

TheBalor: it's been established by the writers of the Baldur's Gate series that the "fall" of house DeVir caused by Viconia's actions was actually a different "fall" than the one in the Drizzt novels, with the former happening a considerable amount of time before the latter. What Viconia believed to be the fall of her house was only really a setback for them, and they gradually regained their status in Menzoberranzen until their real fall.

BTW there's a better reason than the one you state for why she wouldn't have chosen Cyric: he wouldn't have even been born, let alone ascended to deityhood, until decades later! ??? Bhaal would have still been around at this time, so he would have been another possible choice for her, though I'm guessing a bit too bloodthirsty for Viconia's tastes.

Cybersquirt: Obviously I can't speak for her, but I'm sure the reason Zandilar asked about it because she plans to have the issue discussed in a few banters.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 17 July 2004 - 02:56 AM.


#15 Zandilar

Zandilar
  • Members
  • 76 posts

Posted 17 July 2004 - 03:53 AM

Heya,

All of Bhaal's faithful were destroyed during the Time of Troubles. :groucho: I believe in some ritual Bane and Myrkul thought up, I can't remember what exactly - it's been a very long time since I read the novels. I believe the deaths of all of Bhaal's faithful were supposed to explain the lack of the Assassin class in 2nd Edtion AD&D. (Mind you, the Assassin class came back as a kit in the Complete Book of Rogues, and I believe is present in BG2 as a kit choice for Rogues as well... how ironic.)

I am planning for some religious discussion to come into it, how much and what courses it takes I have no idea yet. I just know that, from my perspective anyway, Viconia's choice in religion is a part of the character. It was neglected... as the gods often are in FR novels and games. Also, I am trying to reconcile her faith with her actions. My novel professor used to emphasise that a good writer will "SHOW, NOT TELL!" Viconia's actions do not show us that she's a good priestess of Shar. Shar's dogma is ignored many times, and many chances to corrupt or interfere with or cause loss to the PC are not taken... She even *gasp* associates freely with the faithful of good aligned gods, without trying to corrupt them! (Which is a "sin" according to Shar's dogma, unless she's doing business with them, and since she's not being paid as a mercenary...)

I'm still thinking about this... so nothing is set in stone from me yet.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users