25 replies to this topic

[Ayce]

As long as I've posted my ideas for Misnc, I may as well post what ideas I have for Valygar.........................

I have to confess, this mod was born out of the idea of running a Palidan PC and wondering what I would do without Keldorn in my party and his killer dispel magic ability......................

The idea popped into my head to turn Valygar into an "inquisitor." At first, the idea seemed a little cheesy, but after thinking about it, it seemed to fit perfectly with his background, here me out......................

1. He comes from a long line of evil magic-users, a fact that he is ashamed of, he hates the cowled wizards as well......................

2. He reveals, in a banter with Keldorn, that he tried being a scout for the military, but it wasn't for him...............

3. He successfully faced and killed two cowled wizards by himself as they tried to force him into the planar sphere.................. How did he get past all of their presumed defenses which seem standard for cowled wizards??

4. His primary weapon is the Katana, see below how I regard this as significant....

Building on these plot elements, here is how I see this idea working..............

After leaving the military, still ashamed of his heritage and determined to do something about it, he journeys to Kara-Tur where he meets up with a strange, mystic savant who sees the inherent torturedness of this young man. This savant teaches Valygar to focus his ki in unique ways so that he might more effectively put an end to his families shame and face the enemies that surely await him in doing so................

So he learns to focus his ki in order that he might see past any deciet these evil wizard sew (true sight) and penetrate the magic they raise against him (dispel magic). He may have learned some inherent resistance to magic (save bonus vs. spells or magic resistance similar to the wizard slayer). Also, while spending his early adulthood in Kara-Tur, he learned some of their other ways including the use of the Katana, thus he finally able to pick up his family's heirloom blade and use it in his quest to redeem the Corthala name.

Advantages

True Sight (per inquisitor kit)
Dispel Magic (per inquisitor kit)
Magic Resistance\Save vs. Spells Bonus (maybe)
Innate Spell Turning ability (granted as some high level like 9 or 12, perhaps)

Disadvantages

No charm animal ability (he never bonded with nature the way other rangers do)
No priest spells (as above, no inherent bond with nature, all his will is focused into destroying evil mages)

Feedback is welcomed.................

[berelinde]

Would PC's who elected to take this kit be assumed to have had lich parents and traveled to Kara Tur to receive their training, as well?

Sorry. I don't know what's gotten into me, lately. I've become so sarcastic.

But it does bring up a point.

When you add a kit to the game, you make it available to the protagonist, too. Which is why creating a kit tailor made for a specific NPC might not be the best idea. Would there be a reason for <CHARNAME> of Candlekeep to have developed these skills?

I know, the given background of the PC doesn't support most of the classes/kits. I can see a PC developing any mage kit, most cleric kits, and at least some of the thief kits, but I'd be willing to bet there weren't a lot of rangers or paladins walking around Candlekeep. Yet these classes/kits made it into the game, so this one might work, too.

The other thing to think about is whether this kit is balanced.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but you're essentially creating an Inquisitor that doesn't have to meet the stat and alignment restrictions of a paladin, and gets a few ranger abilities, like gratis dual-wielding and stealth, into the bargain. That makes for a very powerful kit.

Having heaped all this criticism on your idea, I do like it for Valygar.

[Ayce]

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Would PC's who elected to take this kit be assumed to have had lich parents and traveled to Kara Tur to receive their training, as well?

When you add a kit to the game, you make it available to the protagonist, too. Which is why creating a kit tailor made for a specific NPC might not be the best idea. Would there be a reason for <CHARNAME> of Candlekeep to have developed these skills?

I know, the given background of the PC doesn't support most of the classes/kits. I can see a PC developing any mage kit, most cleric kits, and at least some of the thief kits, but I'd be willing to bet there weren't a lot of rangers or paladins walking around Candlekeep. Yet these classes/kits made it into the game, so this one might work, too.

Point taken, but as you said there are a lot of PC options that don't make any sense given the background for the PC. A hundreds year old dwarf or elf child of Bhaal.............? Didn't think so, but that is the nature of modding in the first place, people can use it to create a +20 weapon that does 10d10 damage if they want to, but hopefully, most will use it to enhance the game experience as it was intended to.

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The other thing to think about is whether this kit is balanced.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but you're essentially creating an Inquisitor that doesn't have to meet the stat and alignment restrictions of a paladin, and gets a few ranger abilities, like gratis dual-wielding and stealth, into the bargain. That makes for a very powerful kit.

True, but he doesn't have detect evil or protection from evil and he does have his armor restrictions. Dual-wielding and stealth have their own inherent disadvantages.

Also, he doesn't have immunity to charm and hold, a significant difference.

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Having heaped all this criticism on your idea, I do like it for Valygar.

Thanx

Now for a question, I know how to disable the spell-casting button, but how do I erase his learned priest spells and spell progression from him? This is largely a cosmetic issue as he won't be able to cast spells if his spell casting button is disabled anyway, but just wanting to go for that full authenticity.................

Edited by Ayce, 03 September 2007 - 08:48 AM.

[rpmaster]

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Would PC's who elected to take this kit be assumed to have had lich parents and traveled to Kara Tur to receive their training, as well?

Actually it is possible to create "invisible" kits availible only to NPCs with weidu. So i dont see any problem here

Edited by rpmaster, 02 September 2007 - 09:40 PM.

[Caedwyr]

berelinde, on Sep 2 2007, 04:04 PM, said:

Would PC's who elected to take this kit be assumed to have had lich parents and traveled to Kara Tur to receive their training, as well?

Sorry. I don't know what's gotten into me, lately. I've become so sarcastic.

But it does bring up a point.

When you add a kit to the game, you make it available to the protagonist, too. Which is why creating a kit tailor made for a specific NPC might not be the best idea. Would there be a reason for <CHARNAME> of Candlekeep to have developed these skills?

I know, the given background of the PC doesn't support most of the classes/kits. I can see a PC developing any mage kit, most cleric kits, and at least some of the thief kits, but I'd be willing to bet there weren't a lot of rangers or paladins walking around Candlekeep. Yet these classes/kits made it into the game, so this one might work, too.

The other thing to think about is whether this kit is balanced.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but you're essentially creating an Inquisitor that doesn't have to meet the stat and alignment restrictions of a paladin, and gets a few ranger abilities, like gratis dual-wielding and stealth, into the bargain. That makes for a very powerful kit.

Having heaped all this criticism on your idea, I do like it for Valygar.

I believe the kits added by this mod are not usable by the PC.

[Mike1072]

Ayce, on Sep 2 2007, 09:06 PM, said:

True, but he doesn't have detect evil or protection from evil and he does have his armor restrictions. Dual-wielding and stealth have their own inherent disadvantages.

I don't see any disadvantage to getting free points in dual-wielding or stealth. However, this is the first mention I've seen of armour restrictions - if you plan on disallowing metal armour, then the balance would be changed considerably, and this kit would be less like an uber Inquisitor.

Ayce, on Sep 2 2007, 09:06 PM, said:

Now for a question, I know how to disable the spell-casting button, but how do I erase his learned priest spells and spell progression from him? This is largely a cosmetic issue as he won't be able to cast spells if his spell casting button is disabled anyway, but just wanting to go for that full authenticity.................

From what we discussed in the other thread, I believe if you added the Inquisitor's unusability value of 0x00000010 to the unusability of whatever you are currently using, you might be able to grey out the divine spell page. (If you combined it with the Stalker's for the armour restrictions, you would have the value of 0x00010010.) I haven't tested this, so it's up to you to see if it works.

[Ayce]

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I don't see any disadvantage to getting free points in dual-wielding or stealth. However, this is the first mention I've seen of armour restrictions - if you plan on disallowing metal armour, then the balance would be changed considerably, and this kit would be less like an uber Inquisitor.

Well, dual-weilding precludes the use of a shield, stealth precludes the use of heavier armor is what I meant. In my first unmodded game, I played Valygar with dual Katana and an AC of -4. He was lethal so as he wasn't directly attacked and didn't have to stand toe to toe with tougher opponents. That was Keldorn's job (whom I got to -12 AC wielding sword and shield - even tougher opponents had trouble tagging him). Besides, I again have to point out, he doesn't gain the absolute immunity to charm and hold either.

Still, I think an official restriction on non-metallic armors would be appropriate. Keeping him lightly armored and lightly equipped is totally consistent with my "greased lightning" concept of him. Lethal, quick attacks (boots of speed too), but not so great on defense.

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From what we discussed in the other thread, I believe if you added the Inquisitor's unusability value of 0x00000010 to the unusability of whatever you are currently using, you might be able to grey out the divine spell page. (If you combined it with the Stalker's for the armour restrictions, you would have the value of 0x00010010.) I haven't tested this, so it's up to you to see if it works.

I'll let you know how it turns out when I have a chance to open and mess with these files and playtest them. Maybe this weekend.............

[berelinde]

A high dex is more than adequate compensation for not having heavy armor, and with the Night's Gift available as part of the ranger stronghold, and potentially shadow dragon armor, that isn't too much of a hardship. My brain is misfiring after a long day at work. Let me try that again.

Dual wielding is more of a benefit than the ability to use a shield. After all, if an inquisitor wants to use a shield effectively, he still has to spend points for "sword and board" fighting style, or for 2-handed weapon fighting style, should he go that route, or for dual-wielding. Ditto rangers, but they get their dual-wielding points for free.

You can still get down to something like -7 with a high dex and the night's gift or shadow dragon scale, and there isn't much difference between -7 and -12, so I am not certain that this is much of a disadvantage.

[BigRob]

I seem to remember Valygar's DEX not being all that hot, as last time I used him, he was always getting badly battered, even with the best armour available for him. Not having access to any spells and being restricted to the lighter armours might balance this out for him (plus he can't get the holy sword's Dispel ability like an Inquisitor could).

[Western Paladin]

Valygar has 18 Dexterity, so I suspect the problem is the light armor (and probably enemies' very high strength / low THAC0).

For me, Minsc is the one who is always taking hits; he has the opposite armor/dexterity problem, though.

[BigRob]

Shows you how good my memory is.

[berelinde]

Hey, BigRob! Play more, get ideas, write more! We want Aklon!

[BigRob]

He's on his way, I swear! He's just, er, limping a little at the moment.

[Andyr]

berelinde, on Sep 2 2007, 11:04 PM, said:

When you add a kit to the game, you make it available to the protagonist, too. Which is why creating a kit tailor made for a specific NPC might not be the best idea.

This is not necessarily true--it is perfectly possible to add a kit for an NPC without making it a choice for PCs to select.

[Ayce]

Glad to see this discussion is still alive in my absence.

Got preoccupied with going back to work and all, anyway...........

Like I said, when I use Valygar, he has VERY effective attacks, but would take a beating if strong enemies targeted him. I did my best to make sure they were always targeting my protagonist or Keldorn.

When he got the drop on Mind Flayers and Raksashas, he (Valygar) would just cut them down before they could react (especially if stunned by the Celestial Fury). Still, you didn't want him standing toe-to-toe with Golems, powerful fighters and the like. He was always most effective against dangerous, but physically weak, monsters with special attacks like wizards, illithids and raksashas.

Hmmm, that must have influenced my idea for this custom kit to begin with...........

And yeah WP, I hear ya, Minsc could never survive on the front lines unless I equipped him with some heavy armor (forgoing his stealth), hence I have him using 2h swords and staves from behind Keldorn and the like (or just missle fire).